Gold Coast Exterior: GC_01 [chef] [Anvil]

View and discuss completed claims here
User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

Don't forget to implement the Sutch dock set along the Anvil waterfront
You mean the Stirk dock set?

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

The Sturkch dock set.

By the way, I really like that tide pool area north of Anvil. Never really noticed it before, but it looks really nice.

EDIT: one last thing I forgot to mention: could you add one some apple tree orchards around the farms near Anvil?

Yeti
Lead Dev
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:38 pm

Post by Yeti »

I did some work on the Navy HQ. I'll replace the original fort pieces with the Cyrodiil ones for the next update.

What are the IDs for the new docks in Tamriel Data? I found the T_Imp_SetGC_X_DocksTown ones, but I don't see how they could be used to replace the current ones adequately without major reworking.

I'll make sure to follow your directions on the forts, Infragris. What are the IDs for the Old Imperial Ruin tileset?
Attachments
Anvil_1_0.esp
(2.51 MiB) Downloaded 158 times

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

The Imperial ruins tileset is "T_Imp_DngRuinCyr_X_"

"T_Imp_SetGC_X_DocksTown" is the correct one. I know it's a lot of work, but the current blocky with the one platform block is really below our standards. The new set is designed to be more realistic and detailed, while taking up less space. Note that you can use the half-sided pieces (with "S" in the names) and the flat piece to make broad boarwalks taking up the same space as the original blocks. The blocks also don't need to be replaced entirely: you can keep a number of them for the shallow angles or specific arrangements. Maybe mix the set with the cheaper wooden ones, to (especially in the poor quarter)

Yeti
Lead Dev
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:38 pm

Post by Yeti »

Well, I'll see what I can do! And I appreciate for the offer. I wasn't certainly looking forward to that step of the process. 8-)

Yeti
Lead Dev
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:38 pm

Post by Yeti »

I know it's been a while, but here's my most recent work on the city.

I've started replacing the docks, and I'm still not sure what to think of them. Is there a reason why they're colored pink/purple? Being made of wood obviously means we can't place Anvil's stone buildings and walls on them, so if we replace the majority of the white stone blocks, we'd have to undo many of the city's nicer features, such as the secondary harbor.

After some experimentation, I still don't know how to use the Imperial Ruin tileset effectively. Is there an example of how these pieces are supposed to fit together that I can look to for inspiration?
Attachments
Anvil_1_0.esp
(2.52 MiB) Downloaded 145 times

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

I have just looked at this claim in the CS and I must say, I can definitely feel your pain.

Imo, it is not a good idea to reproduce those giant docks with the new dock pieces. One of these large docks is probably great as a main docking area for the imperial navy, but other than that you should probably create many narrow docks with them that look better, when created the stirk dock set. I don't know what the others think, but to me it seems like it was better to keep the platform pieces in the areas of the city where they haven't been exchanged yet and just put some effort into making the new dock pieces work where they have been already exchanged. As said, I think it would be better to make smaller docks with them and maybe only keep the massive dock next to the imperial navy quarter as it currently is and one of the two massive docks (maybe the one next to Bendu Olos statue) for the galleons. But this is just what I see as a possible course of action right now. Thankyou for trying to make it all work.

Did you refashion the imperial navy headquarter into a small citadel? I'm not sure about adding the anvil-set attachments to it. Probably better just to completely construct it out of the fort-pieces? I think I'll finally go and retex those city walls when I'm done with the ayleid armor...

On the imperial ruins. If you want to make a ruin tower, you need to put T_Imp_DngRuinCyr_X_Basement - pieces at the bottom, T_Imp_DngRuinCyr_X_Middle - pieces on top of them and on top of those again T_Imp_DngRuinCyr_X_Top - pieces. There is obviously a lot of versability with these pieces. It's also possible just to use the rectangle tower and wall pieces and combine them in whatever fashion, you like. Usually you don't stack wall pieces into the circular tower. They are used to surround this tower structure, but they are totally optional, too.

Good luck with it all. :)

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

The main reason why the harbor needed to be reworked was that it was too undetailed. The use of those large blocks makes it look like it's made out of lego or something. It would be best to use the corners and dead ends to make the harbor look more dynamic and less monolithic, with differences in height, smaller canals, etc. If there is a need, I can make more pieces: just tell me what you need.

To be honest, I thought the use of the buildings standing halfway on the docks was a bit weird before. As it is now, it doesn't really disturb me that much: they're not stone buildings built on top of wooden docks, they're wooden docks built around stone houses.

The color was originally designed for Stirk, it does look a little out of place. Perhaps we should retex the dock set with Anvil textures after all? Or maybe just tweak the docks textures to be useable everywhere, I don't know. For a set of maybe ten pieces, the data bloat is negligible. Looking at it from a distance, it does feel like we're mixing too many different styles and textures. One other thing we could do is turn the platform block into its own simple tileset: I they could be linked together seamlessly, the lego effect might be diminished.

On second thought, that's what I propose: we redo the docks tileset in the same textures as the Anvil platform block. Maybe try out if they fit in Stirk: if so, we do a clean retex, if not, we just make a second set. We link this to another tileable set based on the platform piece, which can be used to make a "clean" harbor, with the docks set used to detail it. How does that sound?

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

On second thought, that's what I propose: we redo the docks tileset in the same textures as the Anvil platform block. Maybe try out if they fit in Stirk: if so, we do a clean retex, if not, we just make a second set. We link this to another tileable set based on the platform piece, which can be used to make a "clean" harbor, with the docks set used to detail it. How does that sound?
Urgh. little stuff like this annoys me a great deal. But it's probably best to try to work it into a unified set and make it part of the setAnv or setGC - set (+ replace the stirk pieces later)

At the moment, I'm not sure, if it's a good idea to keep Yeti tasked with all these fidelities. There are quite a few things that we need to change about the city and its difficult to manage it all through this thread here. This is not meant as criticism to Yeti, though. The current time pressure makes it difficult to handle all these different problems well.

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

We could freeze the Anvil parts of the claim for now. Consider this map: all the grey marked cells are part of this claim. Put aside Anvil for the moment, and there's still plenty of seafloor cells, higway set, and detailing to do in the rest, for which all essential assets are ready. As a bonus, interior claims for these cells could be unlocked ahead of time.

Yeti
Lead Dev
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:38 pm

Post by Yeti »

I'm fine with stepping away from Anvil for now.

For the ruins, I understand you put the bottom pieces on the bottom, the middle in the middle, ect... but when I tried that out, they didn't seem to fit together. And are there stairs for going between one level and the other?

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

In the Skyrim_RestExteriors.esp, there are a couple of examples with the sibling DngRuinSky - set that you could look up to get an idea of the usage.

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

Here are proposed retexes of the current anvil-walls, using legion fortress textures to reduce the clash with fortresses in and around the city and the highway additions that are yet to come.

Next I would like to look into adding some vertex shading to the current Anvil houses and maybe creating a house variant with a decorative archway. Something similar to what can be seen on this concept art by Beyond-Skyrim:
http://img10.deviantart.net/afcd/i/2015 ... 8wvf1x.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Something the city is currently lacking is some additional stress on the native armory. I wonder, whether it wouldn't be a good idea to add one or two more armorers to the area around the central marketplace. Instead of using the skaal furnace, a more fitting Anvil could be created using T_Imp_LegionCyr_I_PitJamb_01. Or we should maybe create a dedicated Anvil model like the Skyrim-one?

What's the current state with taverns in the town
Attachments
Anvil_Walls.7z
(107.31 KiB) Downloaded 178 times
anvil_walls_retex.jpg

Yeti
Lead Dev
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:38 pm

Post by Yeti »

Hey everyone,

Well... after what happened yesterday (I imagine you can guess what I'm referring to) I'm not sure I have the energy to make meaningful progress on this claim. It would be better for both our sister projects if I stepped away from this and narrowed my attention on other areas, namely SHotN's planned Christmas release. To be honest, I've been spreading myself far to thin lately, taking on more tasks than I could reasonably juggle. I don't want my words to sound empty when I say I'm going to do something. In that regard, giving this up was a long time coming.

Your walls look good, worsas. They blend in better with the fort structures.

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

Yeti,
I am sad to hear this, but I also fully understand. These are bad times for many, and your personal situation and comfort should be your first priority. Thank you for all the work you've put in the project.


@worsas,
I fully agree on using the Legion textures: it makes a lot of sense seeing the town's history, and it helps a lot to give the town more visual coherence. As a bonus, Imperial fort assets could be used to give the walls some more details, and the wall assets could be used to give the castle some more identity. There are a couple of good forge and smelter meshes in the Ald Krieg resource: these should only need a bit of texture tweaking to be useful.

About the taverns + things that act like taverns: this map is still sort of up-to-date. My ideas are as follows:
  • 2 - The St. Naharine Circle: formerly the Knights of the Lily HQ, but knights are out. Country club in reverence to Saint Naharine, a Colovian Founder Saint. Check the lore articles about Saints and Saintly Circles for more information. Very exclusive, but you might be able to get something to eat here.
  • 8 - The St. Amiel Maritime Circle: formerly the boating club, I'd like to profile this as a fancy gentleman's club founded by officers from the West Navy. Saint Amiel refers to Amiel Richton, the villain from TES: Redguard.
  • 20 - The House of Dibella: aka the sacred brothel. These are positioned opposite from the temple, maybe connected through an underground passage. You should be able to buy food and drink in the city's brothels.
  • 21 - The Count's Arms: classy tavern and inn. Rentable bed.
  • 22 - The Abecette: Anvil's famous gambling palace. Suites in the palace should be for rent, but maybe only to friends of the house. Lots of drinks and food for sale here. Gambling games in the Abecette could be set up through dialogue challenges depending on the player's luck/sneak/security/personality stats. The Abecette should feature "inner halls" on invitation only, with extra entertainment like a fight pit.
  • 25 - Thieves Guild Hideout: taverns as Thieves Guild hideouts are traditional, though I would like to propose making this one a moneylender. Check the [Faction] Thieves Guild document in planning for details.
  • 33 - Poor Brothel: arguably a bit big for a poor brothel. I think we could just remove this building without really affecting the scene much. Open up the harbor, maybe put some cranes and dockworker equipment there.
  • 66 - The Rusty Cutlass: poor tavern. Thieves Guild or pirate related? Could be a gambling hall: maybe a rat fight pit in the basement, where player can bet on the rat fights.
  • 83 - The Flowing Bowl: poor inn. Rentable bed.
  • 84 - The Fo'cs'le: poor brothel, frequented by sailors and Navy soldiers. Rentable bed?
Would you mind if I take hold of the esp for a day or so? I don't think I'll claim it, but there are a couple of things I'd like to try.

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

Would you mind if I take hold of the esp for a day or so? I don't think I'll claim it, but there are a couple of things I'd like to try.
Not at all. It's probably easier to implement your ideas by your own hand.
33 - Poor Brothel: arguably a bit big for a poor brothel. I think we could just remove this building without really affecting the scene much. Open up the harbor, maybe put some cranes and dockworker equipment there.
Sounds good. There are already plenty of buildings with similar purpose around, it seems. I thought there weren't enough classical inns, but since the brothels seem to offer bed and food, too, it's probably fine already.

I wonder, if the graveyard next to the navy-headquarter isn't maybe at a misfitting location. Couldn't it be moved to the green area in the southeast of the city or to an area outside of town? The space next to the navy headquarter could be saved for something with relation to the navy. A small shipyard or a foundry or a temporary quarter for legionaries that arrive or wait to take off? Just something that makes the area around the navy headquarter look and feel busier and more relevant.
Well... after what happened yesterday (I imagine you can guess what I'm referring to) I'm not sure I have the energy to make meaningful progress on this claim.
I can understand the current frustration. It's probably better like that while we are shuffling things around now.

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

The green area southeast is the temple gardens: we could put some headstones there, but I don't think it would fit as a dedicated graveyard. Putting it outside the city sounds best: historically IRL graveyard were often built outside of cities due to various superstitions. Matches the Stirk graveyard, too.

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

Here is a small preview of some tweaks I'm doing to the anvil houses. The three-story house has gotten an alternate roof to add a bit of much-needed variety and contrast.
Attachments
anvil_roof_tweak.jpg

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

A couple of WIP pics of the city:
http://i.imgur.com/dH6eFCM.jpg The West Navy Docks now occupy the area of the old HQ and the graveyard, which will be replaced outside of the city limits. The docks will be completely in Legion style to distinguish them from the rest of the city. The double walls should delineate this part of the city from the rest and prevent style clashing.
http://i.imgur.com/QsswTTX.jpg Castle Umbranox in native Legion style.
http://i.imgur.com/66fJrLl.jpg The Imperial Highway.
http://i.imgur.com/FsyyFGt.jpg The rich boating club, using the continuous Anvil platform pieces as docks. Looks a lot cleaner imho.
http://i.imgur.com/7UkKwKC.jpg The Sailor's Quarter canal. Top part of the canal has been replaced using the new pieces, lower part still uses the old blocky platforms.

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

I hate to keep bringing this up, but I continue to struggle with the city wall look. The new textures lessened the problem, but as you can see in the top pic (and as has been pointed out to me by others on discord) the mesh style continues to clash with the vanilla fortress style. With that in mind, I have two proposals:

1. Redo the wall textures (again) using native Anvil textures.

2. Redo the wall meshes to look more like Imperial fortress meshes. My preference goes out to this one, as these kind of massive walls could be useful for later Legion fortifications, dams, infrastructure etc. I've made a rough proof of concept visible below. Only problem with this is that the back of the walls is relatively undetailed, but it is imho not worse than most Tribunal meshes and easily obscured by the city itself. This way, the walls still draw a lot of attention when viewed from outside the city, but no longer look out of place from within. Also, it has a lot less polys. Whatever we decide, the models need to be changed in one important way: they need to be lengthened at the bottom so that they actually sink into the ground, not hover on top of it.

Another mesh I'm having trouble with is the Dibellan temple. The current model is too close to a basilica/christian church, especially with the extra tower on the back. I'm not quite sure what to do with it yet, but at the very least I would like to remove the circling steps.
Attachments
wall proposal.jpg

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

1. Redo the wall textures (again) using native Anvil textures.
Horrible idea, unless you make the walls (models) from scratch

You are free to do whatever you wish with my version of the city walls, though. On the dibella temple, I agree that it looks too much like a church, but I think that the round window is more faulty of it than the circling steps, which I have adopted from a different legion structure to create more continuity. i made the temple without the tower and I don't know who added the latter, so I don't have any strong feelings about it.

User avatar
Saint_Jiub
P:C Council Member
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:44 pm

Post by Saint_Jiub »

worsas, you mentioned disliking the Anvil house textures in another thread.... what do you think about something like this?

Image

I personally really like the Anvil walls - one of the things that everyone complains about in Oblivion is the use of very similar looking castle walls for every city so I guess I'm concerned about treading that same ground, especially because our Anvil isn't that visually different from Oblivion's as it is. My eye doesn't see the disconnect between the Legion stuff and this set, especially now that we've consolidated the textures, so I don't really see the problem.

As for the church, my only suggestion would be to drop the tower (I think Prae added that when he first put the city together) and make it so the round window is only on the front, since the back should be the big window showing Dibella herself.

User avatar
R-Zero
PT Modder
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:50 pm

Post by R-Zero »

Damn, this looks nice! Really brings warm and variety to Anvil color palette making it a bit closer to what we have in Brina Cross, and also bridges the stark contrast between the darkish walls and bright streets! :P

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

worsas, you mentioned disliking the Anvil house textures in another thread.... what do you think about something like this?
That is definitely more eye-pleasing. From the distance it looks a tad clean, though. It should also reveal holes with those clay bricks, to show that these use the same clay bricks seen on the gold coast common houses. And Anvil generally should have a slightly worn-down look to it being a port town with the shaggy alleyways and such.

Yesterday I've been experimenting with an alternate version of the dibella-temple btw. but I'm still struggling a great deal with it.

Edit: Should we still add those sewer entrances to the city?

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

About the temple: it would be cool if it could be used more like a temple complex/monastery type of situation, combined with the property walls and secondary buildings. The way the building is currently set up, it's difficult to envision the interior as anything other than a big boxy worship hall, without an inner sanctum, living rooms for the priests, etc. Something like a Roman temple plan, but with slightly more interior chambers and divisions (and options for assymmetry). Ideally, I would like to combine the temple and the holy brothel into one compound.

@Saint_Jiub: I like the new texture, but as worsas said it should be a little more worn. Perhaps also a bit too orange, I'm not sure.

Sewer entrances: it would make some sense given that Anvil is a relatively new city, but I believe we decided against it in the end because we don't have a sewer tileset.

User avatar
Saint_Jiub
P:C Council Member
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:44 pm

Post by Saint_Jiub »

What about this?

Image

You're only going to get so much detail out of stucco from a distance, otherwise it's going to look really rough and noisy at close range, but I did add the brick elements back to the white stucco areas.

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

That looks very interesting. Could you post a closeup of the texture?

User avatar
Infragris
Project Administrator
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Infragris »

Here's a map of Anvil as it is right now:
Image

A couple of places are still unaccounted for, indicated below. Some places, like the shrines at 36 and 56, are not actually interiors, just places of note in the exterior space.

Garden Quarter
1. Castle Umbranox
2. Lighthouse
3. High Temple of Dibella/Sacred Baths/Brothel [Imperial Cult]
4. Praetorate [Imperial Curia]
5. Garden House
6. Colo-Nordic Manor [Free Estates Movement]
7. Saint Amiel Maritime Circle [Imperial Legion-affiliated]
8. Colo-Nordic Noble Manor
9. Wealthy Merchant Manor
10. Retired Navy Commander/Colo-Nordic Manor
11. Wealthy Merchant Manor
12. Wealthy Merchant Manor
13. Expensive Armorsmith
14. Merchant Manor
15. Expensive Alchemist
16. Expensive Jeweler/Perfume Seller
17. Expensive Clothier
18. Expensive Weaponsmith
19. The Count's Arms Inn [Beds]
20. Merchant Manor

Gateway Quarter
21. Saint Naharine Circle
22. Stables and Caravan Stop [Fast Travel]
23. Fighters Guild [Fighters Guild]
24. ???Emperor Zero Temple?
25. Loan Shark & Pawnbroker [Thieves Guild-affiliated]
26. The Abecette Gambling Palace & Hotel [Beds]
27. Mages Guild [Mages Guild]
28. Middle-Class Apartments [3 places]
29. Morvayn's Peacemakers [Middle-Class Smith]
30. Middle-Class Apartments [3 places]
31. Poor Herbalist Shop [Apothecary]
32. General Merchant/Pottery Shop
33. Lower Class Apartments [4 places]
34. Poor Clothier
35. ???Shop?
36. Shrine to the Market-Saints
37. Middle-Class Apartments [3 places]
38. Census & Excise Office
39. Middle-Class Apartments [2 places]
40. ???General Merchant?
41. Abandoned Warehouse
42. Harbormaster's Office
43. Warehouse
44. Warehouse

Harbor Quarter
45. ???Large House?
46. Middle-Class Apartment [3 places]
47. East Empire Negotiator Manor
48. Merchant Captain Manor
49. Briricca Company Offices
50. Abecean Trading Company Warehouse
51. White Scarab Cooperative Warehouse
52. East Empire Company Warehouse
53. Silk Merchant Offices/Silk Exchange [Silk Weaver Guild & primitive stock exchange]
54. Middle Class Apartments [3 places]
55. Ship [Fast Travel]
56. Shrine to Kynareth and the Sea-Saints

Sailor Quarter
57. ???Guard House?
58. ???General Merchant?
59. Poor Inn/Gambling House/Thieves Guild Headquarters [Thieves Guild]
60. Poor Pawnbroker [Thieves Guild-affiliated, Fence]
61. Poor Apartments [4 places]
62. Poor Apartments [3-4 places]
63. Poor Apartments [3 places]
64. Poor Flophouse
65. Poor Flophouse
66. Poor Apartments [3 places]
67. Poor Apartments [3-4 places]
68. Poor Flophouse [Placid Drowner Cult hideout, quest-related]
69. Poor Flophouse
70. Poor Flophouse
71. Orc House [quest-related]
72. Poor Apartments [4-5 places]
73. Poor Apartments [3 place]
74. Poor Brothel/Gambling House
75. The Flowing Bowl [Beds]
76. West Navy Headquarters & Barracks [Imperial Legion]
77. West Navy Storage
78. West Navy Watchtower

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Post by worsas »

Just uploading my unfinished attempt from sunday. I don't have the needed motivation to continue on it or scrap it in favour of something more akin to your current vision. Those awkward things on the roof were intended as flower beds, btw. Feel free to use this or make something different.
Attachments
dibella_temple.7z
(79.02 KiB) Downloaded 209 times

User avatar
Saint_Jiub
P:C Council Member
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:44 pm

Post by Saint_Jiub »

Image

Closeup of the Anvil house.

I think your temple looks cool worsas :)

Post Reply

Return to “Completed”