Griffs exterior showcase

Interested in joining? Show off your skills here
Post Reply
User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:47 pm

Hi everyone.
I have been thinking of getting into exterior work, I've been playing around with the tools in the CS for years but never thought about testing my skill in a showcase. Anyway what's the best way of going around creating one, would you like me to create something in the Shotn/P:C exterior file or make a new piece of land.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks for your time.

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1887
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by worsas » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:06 pm

Hey Griff,

I think the easiest would be to try to create an adjacent piece of the gold coast based on the latest location map here : viewtopic.php?f=144&t=147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here is the latest file of the gold coast: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And here are some naming conventions: viewtopic.php?f=107&t=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though, if you prefer to work on something at SHOTN, feel free to suggest something and we look from there. I would still like to elaborate a location map for SHOTN though, before we move on with further exterior work.

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:10 pm

Thanks for the tips Worsas,
Though, if you prefer to work on something at SHOTN, feel free to suggest something and we look from there. I would still like to elaborate a location map for SHOTN though, before we move on with further exterior work.

I would prefer doing exterior work for P:C anway.

when vertex shading are we using the TRs Texture transitions set up ?

Roads
121,121,121

Statics
68,61,53

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Druadach Highlands
Contact:

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by Scamp » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:47 pm

Hey,

here's a little overview- Thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, P:C exterior modding in the northern Gold Coast includes working with (and generating...) groundcover using Yacoby's Mesh generator. I've written an extensive tutorial on this subject, which is also linked in the region overview. The Northern Gold Coast consists mostly of huge grass plains, which is impossible to do without automated groundcover placement.

If you really don't want to work with groundcover, we might want to get you some areas near Sutch to work on as a showcase. Indeed I was thinking that this region should be more rough, with lots of rocks and uneven terrain all about, which would probably be more similar to what TR exterior modding usually involves.
If you wish to work on the Northern Gold Coast, no work has been done on claims N8 and O8 (adjacent to Brina Cross) on the map Worsas linked to, so those would be ideal indeed, especially to show your ability to match borders. It is not required that you work on this area, however. Keep in mind that anything north or east of Brina Cross will involve regional transitions for which assets haven't been developed yet.
Image

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:27 pm

Thanks scamp.
I think il focus on O8, how many cells would I need to complete for the showcase. I don't want to over stretch my self before I am promoted for exteriors. And do you think I should generate grass before placing statics in this area ?

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Druadach Highlands
Contact:

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by Scamp » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:08 pm

For 08 you should pre-generate groundcover, yes. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask!
Image

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:22 pm

OK i am progressing with the grass one thing id like to ask is what Edit radius would you use when vertex shading ?

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by roerich » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:59 pm

Usually 2 or more. I always go with 2.

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:19 pm

Cells before generating grass
[hsimg=]http://imageshack.com/a/img911/5568/9cw5oM.png[/hsimg]

Edit:

Right ive got the grass generated but all i get is them ugly warning signs.
[hsimg=]http://imageshack.com/a/img905/5789/arbToi.png[/hsimg]

Edit:

This is the warning I get anything i can do?:
Model Load Error: Meshes\grass\PC_Flora_GC_01_02.nif cannot load file in Meshes\grass\PC_Flora_GC_01_02.nif.
Will use the default object Marker_Error.NIF.

Edit:

I decided to load up every file we got of the gold coast and what i found was this between my showcase claim and preds anvil claim there is a big drop in the height map. What can i do about this ?
[hsimg=]http://imageshack.com/a/img633/6528/ZjVU9p.png[/hsimg]

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1887
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by worsas » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:56 pm

The grass models are missing from PC_Data. They used to be in a separate download on the old forum.

For the time being download them from here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... C_Grass.7z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: I'm personally not a fan of working with the grass objects from the beginning. The way I do exteriors, I finish everything without grass first and generate grass over it afterwards. If you have grass everywhere, every slight editing of the terrain is a major effort in itself. To me grass is not only keeping me from making terrain changes at free will, it makes me see the claim through rose-coloured glasses, so to say. Exteriors that are made with grass from the start tend to look shitty, as soon as the grass is removed. I guess our exteriors are meant to be used with them, but it is a concern anyway. To me grass should be a nice bonus, not an integral feature of exterior modding. They are the last stept taken on the work in order to save it, after you have done everything else in your power to make it look good.

Regarding that huge gap, you probably have to bring it on a level with preadators claim and make a gradual rise to meet up with the other adjacent cells. In the end they will have to get matched with each other in an additional step after merging the two claims. It's just important that you have a somewhat close approximiation towards praedators claim there.

Edit2: Though, in the end everyone can decide for himself how to approach the grass issue. One reason why you might want to work with grass beforehand here, is that you can arrange the grass around the rocks right away instead of generating the grass on the claim with rocks and having to look for grass patches below them, which will likely make you miss many of them.

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Druadach Highlands
Contact:

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by Scamp » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:29 pm

Hm, indeed you'll have to work towards Prae's height level here in order to match the coastal water level. Feel free to edit the terrain in any way necessary. We'll have to adjust all of the neighboring cells here.

Also, since Prae's claim is quite close to the coast, near the borders of your claim, you might have to adapt to the environment, which would be Southern GC style. That is, more rocks, palms, some container plants that should disappear (check the guide I recently posted). In fact, this is quite excellent for a showcase since you'll have to make a decent transition between the Northern and Southern Gold Coast in O8. I have done the same in the southern parts of O9, if you would like to see how I approached it. Good luck!

Regarding the grass, you might of course place rocks and flora first and generate grass over it later. I would appreciate if you removed the most obvious grass bleeders though... since grass is being placed below rocks and trees, too. You really are free in terms of what you do here as long as it looks somewhat similar to the surrounding areas.
Image

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:37 pm

Hi lads,
I'm uploading a very wip file of my showcase so I can get some feed back.
the file is probably dirty so beware when opening. cell -116, -50 is the most complete I think.
I would appreciate as much feedback as possible.
Thanks.
Attachments
Griffs ex showcase.esp
(620.18 KiB) Downloaded 91 times

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1887
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by worsas » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:41 pm

I like the terrain shaping and especially the transition to the coastal area discussed above. -116, -50 looks very good. I don't have anything to critizise out about it.
The small rocks are a bit odd in some places, like here: http://imgur.com/r0QGwLu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

The four empty cells -117,-52, -117,-51, -116,-52 and -116,-51 should get some little point of interest, maybe a hidden animal den, a tiny camp site or something similar.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by berry » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:37 pm

It looks really good. :)

Apart from what Muspila said, you could try to soften the terrain with big edit radius brush. It looks a little rugged in a few places.

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:28 pm

Cheers worsas n berry for your feedback. I've managed to get a lot done since the last update. I hope to upload the next file by the end of march.

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:06 pm

Hello been along time.

Just to let you all know i am still working on my showcase/ claim O8 here is a update.

- 4 cells filled out with statics with minor detailing left. 2 cells 25% complete

The file is probable dirty so beware! also i have been using a older version of PC_data so plants are going be a bit off.
Attachments
Griffs ex showcase.esp
(896.62 KiB) Downloaded 85 times

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1887
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by worsas » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:17 pm

It looks great, griff. It'S very consistent with the currently existing exterior, like it was made by the original creator.

Scamp should probably look over it a last time, before giving you the final promotion. When you have finished this exterior, we should add it to our landmass right away. We should actually do the same over at SHOTN with spineinsides exterior showcase.

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by griff » Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:29 pm

Thanks worsas, I've been trying to keep it as consistent with the surrounding areas as best I can.

User avatar
Leon
P:C Council Member
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by Leon » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:03 pm

Looks awesome Griff.
Keep up the good work! :D
Lead Interior Designer & Quality Assurance at Province: Cyrodiil

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Druadach Highlands
Contact:

Re: Griffs exterior showcase

Post by Scamp » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:27 am

Hey Griff. Looking very neat overall; I agree it's quite consistent with the surroundings. There's a few things I want to point out.

Your transition areas seem to be going in the right direction. I'd still put some more work into them, however. I see in one cell you've adapted my strategy of using small hills and cliffsides as region transitions, which is very fine and good to see in terms of consistency as well. My concerns are perhaps best explained when looking at cell -117,-52. When working on transitions, I always try drawing a virtual line between any two partitions of objects and see if any of the resulting parts seem to belong exclusively to one region. If that is the case, the transition needs more work, since it will appear to be too abrupt exactly along this virtual line. This may seem abstract and confusing, but I'm sure it can be very helpful.
Press 't' in -117,-52 and perhaps you'll see the line with all southern parts being just Southern Gold Coast, and the northern parts being just Northern Gold Coast. Additionally, you might notice the difference in object density between the two partitions. In my opinion, the ideal natural region transition (not involving cliffs and other height variations) should work in such a way that a player will not consciously enter a new region knowing immediately when a region ends and a new one starts. It should be a rather unconscious thing that will not render the new region fully apparent until the transition is complete. This is not always possible and certainly vanilla didn't get it right in most places, and I'm not saying I get it right every time either.
I think you should spread out the rocks as they come closer to the region border while also adding more of the grassy boulders throughout the transitional area. You could also include one or two of the northern trees in the southern parts, like you've done in the neighboring cell (telling me you know the deal already, so perhaps this cell is just work in progress after all?).

Lastly, while I quite like your cliff idea as I've pointed out before, I'm not particularly fond of the execution here, to be honest. What you're doing essentially is covering the whole cliffside with huge rock meshes, which to me looks makeshifted and unnatural especially seeing how few rocks there are in the surrounding areas. With these sorts of small hillsides I tend to use a rock ground texture and use huge rocks to cover the terrain selectively. Only when the terrain gets too steep, as can be seen near Garlas Agea, it becomes necessary to cover the whole cliff in rocks to avoid UV stretchings and other awkward visuals, however even then one should try to avoid rocks that really stick out in an irregular pattern. I just feel it looks weird and unusual. This may be subjective, but I remember vanilla handled hills and cliffsides very similarly and I felt it was a good choice to adapt this behavior in my exteriors.
Apart from that, perhaps using PC_Terrain_GC_Edge_01 or downsized cliff meshes will help.

Now, that's a lot of complaints coming from ye olde Scamp. In the end it's just feedback that could help improve things. I hope you don't mind! Overall this is going to be a great extension of the currently finished areas.

Btw, this should really be the last area that we make in this particular fashion; areas to the north and west of this should definitely include some major points of interest and more farmlands. This whole area might otherwise become a little boring over time (not criticism towards your claim, which certainly needs to be exactly like this, just a general note).
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Modder Showcase”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest