Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Interested in joining? Show off your skills here
User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:32 pm

Hello there again,

I have repaired the issues that you came along with during exploring.

Mesh replacers went bye, transitions between regions are smoother. I decided I keep the glitchy grave yard as it is, as long as I'm not using data files other than moorwind and bloodmoon.
I also focused on border areas to make them more interesting to explore.

Try a new file in attachment.
Attachments
TRIAL_SPINEINSIDE.ESP
(1.78 MiB) Downloaded 133 times

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Druadach Highlands
Contact:

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Scamp » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:16 am

Eh, my bad... sorry it took me so long to take another look at this!

Your transitions look a lot better! Really digging the additional details you put in everywhere. Roads look quite cool, too. Overall, this is coming along really nicely!

A few more things:
  • Some parts of cell -41,21 completely lack vertex paint. There's a lot of other areas, too. I'd say this is still your biggest problem right now. Try repeatedly pressing Shift + C to recognize critical areas more quickly, should be a lot easier that way.
  • You should probably sink Furn_De_Firepit_01 a bit further into the ground so that the coal isn't visible beneath the rocks
  • Your road in -40,24 has a giant bump in it. What happened there? Looks like some tiny meteor came flying down from the sky or something.
  • There's a few texture seams here and there, but seeing that you successfully covered many more, I assume you know what's going on there and you should be good to go on that account.
  • You really need to double check all your Terrain_rocks_WG_04 s. They are caspering all over the place.
  • Those trees in the fort up the hill are bleeding baaaaaadly
Image

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:55 pm

Thank you Scamp for your review, I abandoned this exterior showcase for a sake of modelling.

But soon soon I will finish another showcase (more condensed) using directly stuff from SHotN. These are several screens so far:

[hsimg=]http://srv1.sendfile.es/pobierz/737103- ... 980696.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://srv1.sendfile.es/pobierz/737104- ... 980696.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://srv1.sendfile.es/pobierz/737105- ... 980696.jpg[/hsimg]

I know you have algorithms for grass, I placed them by hand so this would be for replacement. If you see any issues from screens then let me know, I will be able to fix some before I upload a file.

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by roerich » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:10 pm

Beautiful stuff.

User avatar
griff
PT Modder
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:51 am
Location: Cheshire England

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by griff » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:47 pm

you places grass without the generator ? that's dedication. looks brill aswell

worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:08 pm

I agree with the others. Looks very promising.

User avatar
Luxray
Cat Herder
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm
Location: The deep, dark depths of the Reach.

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Luxray » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:51 am

Lovely stuff spineinside! That first picture is extremely atmospheric.
Give us a file soon :D
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:13 am

There should be a file attached in this post...

Then I reminded myself about an issue with a disappearing landmass whenever I wanted to create some additions to skyrim's land and fixed it by copying a landmass file AND using it as an active file... Then I had some horrible issues with my CS freezing/crashing almost every time when I move my camera or rotate object cuz I was adding shit to 160 mb file. But... I MADE IT ! It's quite finished now :D

Do you guys know how to easily cut off edited exterior cells from a project and place them as a new seperate file?

User avatar
Leon
P:C Council Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Leon » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:18 am

spineinside wrote:Do you guys know how to easily cut off edited exterior cells from a project and place them as a new seperate file?
TESAME has the ability to do that.
Lead Interior Designer & Quality Assurance at Province: Cyrodiil

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:24 am

EDIT: Unfortunately it's not working, freezes whenever I load my mod :(

Edit2: sorry I got panicked... it works after 20 minutes of loading

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:09 pm

Okay, here it is,

Thanks to Leon's solution I am able to upload my showcase without huge overriding. I have my main file saved so If I did something wrong there is no problem for me to try cleaning it again.

For the main cell I used randomly -85, -23. Cells are called TOM.

I replaced buildings with ruins - seems more natural when there's going to be a lot of barbarian groups in the wilderness.

Fille attached and I'm waiting for response :)
Attachments
Clean TOM_showcase.esp
(1.71 MiB) Downloaded 53 times

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by berry » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:12 pm

Telling by the first glance - it's damn fantastic. That canyon especially is one of the coolest things I have ever seen accomplished with SHotN's assets, both here and in TR. And the layout of the cells is extremely well-thought too, feels very organic. We really should have these cells used for our landmass.

I'd say some areas feel a little too empty as they are, even for the Reach. I wouldn't mind seeing more shrubs/bushes and undemanding plants (aspyr tea, mushrooms, lichens etc) here myself. You need to use vertex painting more often, too, especially around the trees and smaller rocks. Apart from that, and the texture seams that you are obviously aware of, since you already dealt so well with them in the canyon area, I really can't see anything to pick on here. Keep it up! :D

I'll try to give this a closer look in game as soon as I can.
spineinside wrote:EDIT: Unfortunately it's not working, freezes whenever I load my mod :(

Edit2: sorry I got panicked... it works after 20 minutes of loading
Have you tried applying 4 GB Patch to it? From my experience it seems to vastly improve it's stability.

User avatar
Luxray
Cat Herder
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm
Location: The deep, dark depths of the Reach.

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Luxray » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:47 pm

4GB patch works well on both TESAME and even the TESCS (if you are regularly editing landscape)
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:00 pm

It's impressive how you are using the terrain shape to its full potential. Generally, the feeling of scale in your showcase cells is very good, as is the general micro variation in height. It's not too much and not too little.

You are using a few too many different ground textures. Regions always have a predefined, limited range of groundtextures to be used for them. Though, you can't know about these things in advance. The Sundered Hills, in particular, are using a single ground texture for the complete region at this point. However, it is a good idea to mix it up, even if to a lesser extent than seen in your showcase. Berry is also right about the vertex color. Please add it consistently below all rocks, trees and bushes. It makes a difference, when all exterior cells have a consistent usage of vertex color. It's a subtle difference but it is noticed when you walk between the exteriors of different people.

Make sure not to mix frosty/snowy groundtextures with non-snowy ones. You are using a groundtexture with grass or pineneedles that are frosted. Only add a pineneedle- or leafy groundtexture, if there is a sufficient amount of trees nearby to justify it. You also took some of the very moldy forest-groundtextures (tx_skyrim_rocky_dirt_07 and tx_skyrim_dirt_06) into use. Use the less moldy alternatives (tx_skyrim_rocky_dirt_04 and Tx_Skyrim_dirt_05) instead. I wished they had a more descriptive label.

I'm not sure, if your exterior cells are really too empty. The amount of shrubs and grass is already very good, in my opinion. There is sometimes a fine line between overcluttering your exteriors and having large, bland landscapes. A lot of microdetail is good but not all exteriors need to have it equally everywhere. Free space is just as important as having points of interest. So far your showcase already goes that line very well, but if you can think about possibilities of addition, go for it.

User avatar
Leon
P:C Council Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Leon » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:04 am

Damn that looks good, great job spineinside.
Lead Interior Designer & Quality Assurance at Province: Cyrodiil

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Thank you guys for your interest and advices !

There is an update below.
worsas wrote: You are using a few too many different ground textures. Regions always have a predefined, limited range of groundtextures to be used for them. Though, you can't know about these things in advance. The Sundered Hills, in particular, are using a single ground texture for the complete region at this point. However, it is a good idea to mix it up, even if to a lesser extent than seen in your showcase. Berry is also right about the vertex color. Please add it consistently below all rocks, trees and bushes.
I reduced the number and placement of used textures. There is mainly 2 Deadgrass textures plus RockDirt 06 and Dirt 05 in this map right now and snow textures has been put away. There might be not enough vertex coloring under some shrub sections because i just sprayed it without a major focusing and looked good for me that way... anyway, you will see :oops:
berry wrote: I'd say some areas feel a little too empty as they are, even for the Reach. I wouldn't mind seeing more shrubs/bushes and undemanding plants (aspyr tea, mushrooms, lichens etc) here myself... Apart from that, and the texture seams that you are obviously aware of...
worsas wrote:... Free space is just as important as having points of interest...
Empty spaces (especially on the right side of a map) are delicately enchanted with little rocks and shrubs so they doesn't stand out as "untouched" anymore.
Aspyr Tea added. There are noticeably more flora containers and even several lichens in the forge area.
And texture seams... I am believing that this is an issue that surprises everyone even after fixing it :mrgreen: I found evident seams and covered.
Attachments
Clean TOM_showcase_02.esp
(1.91 MiB) Downloaded 51 times

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by berry » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:44 pm

Well, don't worry about my babble about adding details, I probably add too much crap to my cells myself. :P

This is getting better and better.

Some more advice: the general rule in vertex painting is to use it around every static that's placed on the landscape, so most of your rocks and trees still need it. It might sound like a hell of a work, but it's not as demanding as it sounds, actually. I think a good way to get this done would be setting vertex colour to 70/70/70 e.g. and brush paint to 2 - a single dab centered on a tree would be enough for a growing tree, but you would need to outline all rocks and fallen trees around their contours. Also, some areas (around big cliffs, for example) could use slightly darker colour and some other (ground below stone arches) would look good with lighter tones.

Shift + C CS command is extremely helpful in tracking down both the areas still in need of vertex painting and visible texture seams. To avoid the latter it's generaly a good idea to spend some time planning your cells in regards to texture usage - as you will always end with a texture seam if more than two textures "meet each other", most of the time (that is: unless you have some big statics to use in this area, that could cover the seam) it is mandatory to have one texture separated from another by a third one, be "surrounded" by it. That's really the only way to get the textures right, especially in an open area like yours. Trying to cover all of them is tilting at windmills, really, and an experienced player would notice them anyway. However, this shouldn't be a big deal to fix in your showcase, too, as it would only require swaping one dirt texture with another. That would result in lesser diversity, which is sad, but less seams, too.

It kicks ass apart from that. :ugeek:

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:05 pm

Thank you berry for pointing out my vertex coloring gaps. Indeed it looks better and more noticeable while i darkened the brush and focused on every static.
Here is the result, I am afraid i still need to swap some textures, it's hard to take a risk :D.

For everyone, don't hesitate to point out more necessities to change.
Attachments
Clean TOM_showcase_03.esp
-vertex color for nearly every static
-some texture swaps
(2 MiB) Downloaded 51 times

worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:47 pm

Grass and shrubs shouldn't be given vertex color. They are more thought of as a 3-dimensional extension of the groundtexture. On the other hand, bushes, plants, rocks and any larger objects should always have vertex color around them.

Here are a few points I came across in your showcase cells:
There is spikey terrain in a number of places as seen on the cs-screenshots here. I know it's not easy to avoid these spikes. But you should, nevertheless, smooth out areas like these so the triangle spikes are not immediately visible anymore.
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... ugged1.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... ugged2.jpg[/hsimg]

Here is a caspering rock:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... grock1.jpg[/hsimg]

And here is an area I came across ingame. It felt to me like there should be something here. A small camp, a cavern entrance or something else. I didn't notice your other cave entrance nearby, by the way. Perhaps it would be better to move it into this little valley? It's also missing vertex color in the upper left corner of the screen.
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... yspot1.jpg[/hsimg]

One last thing I found difficult ingame, was getting out of the small canyon with the barrow entrance. It would be better to provide a walkable path out of it as I had to cheat myself out of the canyon in the end.

This all said, it's a frigging fantastic piece of work with a huge amount of atmosphere. We should see about including it after your promotion. Anything else would be a waste.

With regards to amount of cluttering: I think it all depends on the place you are working on. Both, very detailled and exteriors with more free space have their justification. I love these grassy areas without much in them aswell. They feel very natural. On the other hand I still remember that extremely detalled showcase with that Dwemer ruin by berry which was in a very different way fantastic as are his recent exterior claims. Things like these can be judged individually. None of my comments were meant as pinprick against it.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by berry » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:15 pm

Ah, my apologies for not being precise enough and misinforming you. :oops: MGE grass isn't supposed to receive any shading, that's true.

Regarding the pointy landscape - say, what's your "Edit Falloff" value? I set mine to 1 months ago and have sticked to it ever since, anything higher seems to result in lots of spikey landscapes. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but it's true for me at least.

I don't know if you are familiar with it, but there's also this rather great tutorial on road-making and exterior modding in general on old TR's boards. I still refer to it whenever I have to make a road. Making good looking road is the most frustrating part of exterior modding to me, especially when I find some goofs when the grass is already generated and I pretty much have to generate it once again. So it's generally a good idea to wait with generating grass untill you're done with everything else. ;) Anyway, worsas is right, you should revisit your roads with the soften vertices paint. For the better part of roads it your claim, all they require is a single softening click on a road with the edit radius of 2 or 3 and the fall-off set to 1; sometimes you would have to soften the road edges too, as it's detailed in the tutorial. Some small mounds around your showcase would require this treatment too.

About the exit from the canyon, this boulder dirt_09 feels quite unnaturaly placed to me. At the very least it needs a vertex shading below it, and I'd actually go ahead and make it lean on something like Sky_Terrain_Rock_04_135 - you will have some place for it once you remove these Sky_Terrain_Rocks_04_04 blocking the way out. There is also a gap on the other side of this dirt boulder through which you can see the ground.

I agree this could use some more points of interests, especially in the cliffs area, but please, don't get carried away. This hollow, unwelcoming landscape has a great atmosphere to it and adding too much stuff would ruin it.

The textures are better now, indeed, but there are still some troubles with them. This area especially is a nightmare, to be frank :D You probably really should cut down on the variety of used textures, but foremostly you need to think about using differing textures like they are isles, on the sea created by the dominating texture. Putting lame metaphors aside, just check it:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/zTtAD8Z.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/CDJQdWb.png[/hsimg]

All seams are gone and the landscape's character feels the same. You could now add another texture in the middle of this big stain of the Tx_Skyrim_Rocky_Dirt_04 on the left.

--

Thinking out loud: it would be really cool to have this -85, -24 cell descend into some kind of a deserted, burned forest, when we will be adding those cells to the mainland.

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:00 pm

Guys, you are extremely helpful with your comments and reference pictures, I feel a little bit embarrassed :oops: and goofy ...There is everything so clear now but it occurs like I'm kind of too permissive for my own work

Berry, I just accidentally omitted your highlighted Shift+C feature mention :shock: ... this DOES help a lot from this what i see xD

Worsas, I will stick to yours and berry's advises and I'm off now to fix everything again :)

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by berry » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:26 pm

Not a problem at all, I'm happy to be of assistance. :)

By the way, Shift + A, highlighting the render view, can be extremely helpful in the search for texture seams too, especially when you have your landscape painted already.

Good luck, it's really close now!

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by roerich » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:46 pm

worsas wrote:e should see about including it after your promotion. Anything else would be a waste.
Seconded. This is top notch work, cosmetic errors aside. :) The burned down village could be pillaged by a Reachman warband.

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:10 am

There is a new file and a lot of progression with fixing up the bugs :) Hope it's clearer now, again, thanks for helpful photo references and recommendations.

- spiky terrain and road fixed
- land textures changed to avoid seams in most parts
- bigger amount of vertex shading (deeper color)
- vertex shading removed from grass and light shrubs
- caspering objects fixed
-walk-able path leading back from a barrow
- strange boulder replaced
- a brand new single in-wall tomb with an altar
- cave entrance moved
- a suggestion of a dried forest down the map

I hope it's getting closer to finish :)

roerich wrote:The burned down village could be pillaged by a Reachman warband.
I thought about bandits residing in a tavern building :) - the only one saved. It might be a trap for adventurers coming in and expecting a typical service.
Attachments
Clean TOM_showcase_04.esp
(2.06 MiB) Downloaded 56 times

User avatar
Leon
P:C Council Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Leon » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:32 am

Please stop spineinside, this is way too high quality for just an exterior showcase. Shame on you. :P
Lead Interior Designer & Quality Assurance at Province: Cyrodiil

User avatar
spineinside
PT Modder
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:34 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:44 am

Leon wrote:Please stop spineinside, this is way too high quality for just an exterior showcase. Shame on you. :P
Haha, I'm really glad you like it, actually bug eliminating helped to balance it a bit .. however the new build-in-barrow altar might be strange, as there won't be any interior at all.

User avatar
Leon
P:C Council Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Leon » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:07 am

spineinside wrote:however the new build-in-barrow altar might be strange, as there won't be any interior at all.
Nah, I think it's awesome actually. Having an outside altar gives an unique aspect to this exterior.
Lead Interior Designer & Quality Assurance at Province: Cyrodiil

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by berry » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:37 pm

It's perfect now, really. There are a few texture seams still noticable, but I don't consider this an issue for the time being, since we will probably have to revisit the textures anyway, when we have this region fully conceptualized. If you and the leads are fine with that I could fix the remaining issues by then (I know what a pain in the neck it could be if you start off the wrong foot with textures :P ). As for now, you clearly know now how to deal with all the issues we mentioned, i.e. seams, vertex painting and spikey terrain, so you got my recommendation for promotion. :) Once again, great work!
spineinside wrote:I thought about bandits residing in a tavern building :) - the only one saved. It might be a trap for adventurers coming in and expecting a typical service.
Neat idea, too. I for one would love us to have the Red Inn of some kind in the Reach, and it looks like a fine spot for one.

worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:56 pm

I think we can safely call you Exterior modder now. Feel free to claim stuff, as soon as you wish to.

User avatar
Luxray
Cat Herder
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm
Location: The deep, dark depths of the Reach.

Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Luxray » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:23 pm

Very cool spineinside! It seems you've got the collective approval of people around here, so go claim some exterior cells already :)
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

Post Reply

Return to “Modder Showcase”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests