Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

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spineinside
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Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:22 pm

Hello again,

There is a new, smaller land created especially for the showcase, kind of a trial that I would like to continue working on in the future or prepare it as an addition to your releases.

As a little introduction I want to add that I just imagined my land to represent southern part of Skyrim. There is a close relation to Cyrodiil that i focused on - as there is a fort with a little imperial settlement/colony.

There are 2 cells called "HR_" (-42, 23; -41, 23) and interiors that are named the same way in the beginning.

(There is something wrong with a display of my distant land, just cannot set properly any more).

There is also a snapshot of a mesh representing a new type of an iron axe and battle axe:
Image
Last edited by spineinside on Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by SGMonkey » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:11 pm

Scene looks very cool. Are you showcasing static meshes you've modelled yourself as well as an exterior showcase?
Also, is MGE giving you any form of error message?

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:34 pm

My custom static meshes are not included, whole the map is made using original Morrowind/Bloodmoon stuff.
Acordng to my models, there are only axes and some ingredients finished to be ready to show, but i also plan to prepare whole set of new wooden buildings soon, and I will share of course.

MGE:

There is no error, i am pretty sure it's a strange thing happening with my graphics card that the distant land is poorly displayed. Whatever I am changing in MGE it shows only up to 4 cells around that are appearing from a completely TRANSPARENT fog (which is strange, because i do not let MGE to display fog at all).

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Luxray » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:40 pm

Welcome to the forums! Very cool screens. I get a nice atmosphere from them. The one with the river and the rocks is my favourite. 8-)

Come hang with us on IRC if you want to get familiar with us and our stuff whilst we all check out your file!

EDIT: Do you have Tribunal? It is a prerequisite for all of our stuff, I am afraid.
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:08 am

Luxray wrote:Welcome to the forums! Very cool screens. I get a nice atmosphere from them. The one with the river and the rocks is my favourite. 8-)
Thank you, I just realized i could show some more screens presenting a wild nature part of an island.
Luxray wrote:Come hang with us on IRC if you want to get familiar with us and our stuff whilst we all check out your file!
Cool ! it helps a lot with communication
Luxray wrote:EDIT: Do you have Tribunal? It is a prerequisite for all of our stuff, I am afraid.
I do, just didn't include it into the showcase.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Luxray » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:59 am

Ah cool. I did see you came and went into IRC -- look forward to seeing you about! Don't be afraid to say hello, lots of us lurk in there till conversation starts up :)
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by SGMonkey » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:17 am

Gah! Didnt realise it was your first post spineinside. Probably because we spoke on IRC before. Welcome to the forums anyway!

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:05 am

SGMonkey wrote:Gah! Didnt realise it was your first post spineinside. Probably because we spoke on IRC before. Welcome to the forums anyway!
Hi there all :D
You probably remember me from High Rock forum, I put some screens of ingredients there a long time before anything declared.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by SGMonkey » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:07 am

Yeah I do remember you. That's why I didn't say welcome :P

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:28 am

Hi Spineinside,

I'll quote what you should be able to do in order to become promoted as modeller, because it has only been worded in our internal section and was nowhere posted for newcomers. The wordings may seem a bit clunky, but they should suffice to explain the requirements:
- Be able to create a mesh and map a texture on it. Here we want to see the ability to create a mesh of a certain complexity and with minimal uv-mapping stretches. Also, polygons shouldn't be used too wastefully, especially, if the detail you want to model can be shown over the texture.
- Create your own texture using the right format. Here we want to see the ability to create visually fitting textures in the dds format. Also, the texture is the means by which you will give your model visual depth most of the time. Don't be afraid to use a high resolution (like 1024x1024), unless the model you are making will be very small.
- Be able to export your model into the NIF - format used for Morrowind.
- Further abilities, like being able to rig and/or animate objects are always a bonus, but not required for promotion.
I assume you will pass these points quite easily. But it is important to have your model uploaded as a proof so you can get promoted.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:37 am

worsas wrote:Hi Spineinside,

I'll quote what you should be able to do in order to become promoted as modeller, because it has only been worded in our internal section and was nowhere posted for newcomers. The wordings may seem a bit clunky, but they should suffice to explain the requirements:
- Be able to create a mesh and map a texture on it. Here we want to see the ability to create a mesh of a certain complexity and with minimal uv-mapping stretches. Also, polygons shouldn't be used too wastefully, especially, if the detail you want to model can be shown over the texture.
- Create your own texture using the right format. Here we want to see the ability to create visually fitting textures in the dds format. Also, the texture is the means by which you will give your model visual depth most of the time. Don't be afraid to use a high resolution (like 1024x1024), unless the model you are making will be very small.
- Be able to export your model into the NIF - format used for Morrowind.
- Further abilities, like being able to rig and/or animate objects are always a bonus, but not required for promotion.
I assume you will pass these points quite easily. But it is important to have your model uploaded as a proof so you can get promoted.
Thank you for information, I will prepare NIF files soon, do you require also a normal map to imprement?

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:07 pm

do you require also a normal map to imprement?
All of our models work without that stuff. Lord Berandas has been working on an optional normal map extension, though. But our stock models shouldn't make use of it, except for certain shiny surfaces (glass, water, ice).

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:03 am

guys I only need you to give me a standard human scale(imperial I guess...) for 3ds Max to prepare my models large/small enough so I will be sure that the size of an object is correctly proposed for TES CS

EDITED:

...Solved (kinda), thanks to tutorials

Had some problems with textures that were unrecognizable by TES CS. Needed to size them down to 256x256 and now they appear in a game.

Now you can check NIF files of axes with textures in a game, I attach them.
Attachments
SPINEINSIDE_TRIAL_AXE_1 Axe_2_NIF.rar
export them by hand
(130.63 KiB) Downloaded 83 times

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:43 am

Additionally... a mushroom

Image
Attachments
SPINEINSIDE_TRIAL_MUSH_1_NIF.rar
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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:35 am

I like what I see here. Models and textures are well-done and fit well into the game. The lower part of the mushroom is a little bit high-poly, perhaps. Do you still have a higher-res version of the axe texture? Otherwise I have nothing to add on the models and textures themselves.

There are two things left you still need to do now to promoted:

1. Save your textures in the dds format. There is a free dds-plugins for both photoshop and gimp, respectively. Opaque textures like the ones you have made, need to be saved in the DXT1- format. Also, select the generate-mipmaps option on export. You will see what I mean when you have the exporter in front of you. You need to save your texture at a power of 2 (256x256 or 512x 512 etc, can also be something 1024x256), like you had to do with your tga ones in order to make them work (so the mipmaps can be generated properly as well).

2. Download and install Nifskope, if you haven't done so yet. Add a NiStringExtraData with value NCO to your mushroom model within Nifskope (this flag ensures that the mushroom has no collision ingame). I have made a series of pictures on how to do it some years ago for a fellow German modder. It is commented in German, but the pictures should be descriptive enough:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h6xz5uyuec2n ... Vcjza?dl=0

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Lord Berandas » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:02 pm

hmm, I am interested in your work, young padawan.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:27 am

worsas wrote:The lower part of the mushroom is a little bit high-poly, perhaps.
I reduced polygons, now it's simplified if needed (NIF attached below).
worsas wrote:Do you still have a higher-res version of the axe texture?
I do :) the last version was 512x512, now it's 1024x1024 (attached bellow)
worsas wrote:There are two things left you still need to do now to promoted:

1. Save your textures in the dds format. There is a free dds-plugins for both photoshop and gimp, respectively. Opaque textures like the ones you have made, need to be saved in the DXT1- format. Also, select the generate-mipmaps option on export. You will see what I mean when you have the exporter in front of you. You need to save your texture at a power of 2 (256x256 or 512x 512 etc, can also be something 1024x256), like you had to do with your tga ones in order to make them work (so the mipmaps can be generated properly aswell).

2. Download and install Nifskope, if you haven't done so yet. Add a NiStringExtraData with value NCO to your mushroom model within Nifskope (this flag ensures that the mushroom has no collision in-game). I have made a series of pictures on how to do it some years ago for a fellow German modder. It is commented in German, but the pictures should be descriptive enough:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h6xz5uyuec2n ... Vcjza?dl=0
Thank you for help, everything occurred clear for me, and no errors i've met. The results are in an attachment bellow. (for some unknown reasons Nifscope didn't show up my texture in a viewport while the whole material remained assigned to the mushroom on a block list).
Attachments
MUSH1.dds
dds texture for a mushroom
(170.8 KiB) Downloaded 87 times
axe_1_2.dds
1024x1024 dds texture for both axes
(682.8 KiB) Downloaded 83 times
MUSH_1.nif
Simplified mushroom with NCO set up in Nifscope
(8.7 KiB) Downloaded 87 times

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:09 am

I think this is enough to have you promoted for 3D modelling.
Welcome aboard.

One little note on the MUSH_1.nif: It occured to me that you have saved this nif in a different nif-format than used in MW. The previous nif-files were in the right format, though, so I think it is a pure oversight. The NiStringExtra is in the nif-tree somewhere but not linked as Extra Data of the top node. You couldn't have linked it as shown in my series of pictures, though. That different nif format uses an array of extra data rather than a single slot.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:52 am

hmmm, my NifSkope seemed to behave a tiny little bit different than this what i had seen on screens indeed,

maybe it was an older version or something sorta. I couldn't input "NCO" easily by a hand, while i did it by "editing the value", automatically NCO has been set to: "NCO(3)" (thought that number 3 is specified for NCO).There is of course a chance I did something worng, but i've sticked to this what was showed on screens and found nothing suspicious in the end.

My final form of a work in NifSkope is in a picture, it may help if you are able find some mistakes there:
Image


EDIT: ahh, and I just simply saved my Mush_1.nif directly from Nifskope... should i transfer it through 3dsmax?

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:34 pm

SpineInside, I think you must have exported the mushroom in a different nif-format to begin with, possibly the Oblivion format instead of the Morrowind-one. Your first uploaded meshes were in the morrowind-format but this one is clearly in a different nif-format.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:52 pm

You were right, truly earlier i had to export a nif for oblivion, now even my Nifskope is not confused hehe.
Thank you for help again, and here is the morrowind nifskope version of my mushee (hope so :) ):
Attachments
MUSH_1.nif
(6.26 KiB) Downloaded 97 times

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Lord Berandas » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:52 pm

The UV unwrap and texture layout could use some more work, but overall it looks like a good start. Welcome! ;)

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:39 pm

so then I will need to improve my skills with uvs creation, to become better and better each reason is good :)
Where can i find some list of things to be done?

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:02 pm

Nif format and NiStringExtraData are correct now. The mushroom has a few minor uv seams at the lower part, but it's a small model, so I don't think it is really a problem. We have worse things than that in our current data files. :oops:
Where can i find some list of things to be done?
For P:C you just need to look at the unclaimed forum in the modelling claim section. For SHOTN, you can look at the asset development section. We haven't made use of modelling claims at SHOTN yet. We might do that at some point in future. In case of the other two projects, just ask in their respective subforum, I guess.

In general, I think it would be a good idea to download the current data files at SHOTN and P:C from the respective internal sections and have a look, perhaps even unpack the BSA-files so you have all the stock textures available.

If you are up for it, I would appreciate help with the Direnni clutter stuff I'm currently workin on here:
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=345

Alternatively, just look what you are in mood of. You will always find something.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by berry » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:49 pm

Welcome aboard Spineinside, congrats on promotion :) really impressive work here.
spineinside wrote:(for some unknown reasons Nifscope didn't show up my texture in a viewport while the whole material remained assigned to the mushroom on a block list).
Have you tried adding proper texture folder in Render->Settings->Rendering menu in Nifskope?

By the way, I took a look at your exteriors; great work here as well, very imaginative and eye pleasing. I loved those Terrain_rock_BM_49s. Yet you clearly used Vurt's WG Trees and On The Rocks when working on this file, so that results in quite a number of floaters/bleeders when used with vanilla meshes. Don't know how big issue will that be for a reviewer though.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:03 am

berry wrote:Have you tried adding proper texture folder in Render->Settings->Rendering menu in Nifskope?
aww it worked! :D thank you.
berry wrote:By the way, I took a look at your exteriors; great work here as well, very imaginative and eye pleasing. I loved those Terrain_rock_BM_49s. Yet you clearly used Vurt's WG Trees and On The Rocks when working on this file, so that results in quite a number of floaters/bleeders when used with vanilla meshes. Don't know how big issue will that be for a reviewer though.
Truly I didn't think of it since the very beginning until now... if the difference in placement is huge then my exterior is completly unplayable... :lol: it has to be fix indeed.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:21 am

worsas wrote: For P:C you just need to look at the unclaimed forum in the modelling claim section. For SHOTN, you can look at the asset development section. We haven't made use of modelling claims at SHOTN yet. We might do that at some point in future. In case of the other two projects, just ask in their respective subforum, I guess.

In general, I think it would be a good idea to download the current data files at SHOTN and P:C from the respective internal sections and have a look, perhaps even unpack the BSA-files so you have all the stock textures available.

If you are up for it, I would appreciate help with the Direnni clutter stuff I'm currently workin on here:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=345

Alternatively, just look what you are in mood of. You will always find something.
Thanks for information, I will look around and get align to pre-made textures to suit the enviro while creating.

About Direnni elements.... I can try to help you out with this, will take your shelf and chest as a reference.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by worsas » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:26 am

About Direnni elements.... I can try to help you out with this, will take your shelf and chest as a reference.
I have uploaded all new textures in the direnni modelling thread. If you don't manage to get into the hang of things, regarding the direnni-stuff, it's not a problem, though. I would appreciate help, but, as stated in that thread, I'll get along on my own, if needed. Our current direnni assets are labelled 'altmer' and 'direnni' in Skyrim-Data.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by Scamp » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:43 pm

Hey spineinside, welcome to the project.

I took a quick glance at your exterior showcase. Totally digging the Bloodmoon parts, those have some great detail going on!

The main issues I can see right here are those really bare areas here and there. It's sort of odd how inconsistent the rock density is. Some cells have a lot of references in them, whereas other cells totally lack any kind of detail. Cell -39,21 has a total of 9 references in it, in the next cell I count 366 objects. Especially your hills lack some additional rocks. That river is quite underdetailed, too.
I also noticed your roads are missing vertex paint. You should add some paint with a light grey tone where the road textures end.

The transitions between different region styles need to be more subtle, I'm afraid. As of now, they're too abrupt. Where you stop using Bloodmoon trees and rocks, you should already feel like you're in a different region, rather than suddenly changing everything at once. MIx it up a bit in these transition areas to make a regional transition less apparent to players.
It took me a while to figure out that your makeshifted graveyard was actually a graveyard and not some clutter that was really out of place. Fortunately, we have the right meshes for that in our data files.
It also helps to cover steep cliffs with rocks to hide the tedious and ugly texture stretches.

To be perfectly honest, it's rather hard to judge your showcase properly without using the same replacers you are using. In general, you should never use any mesh replacers when working on these team efforts. I can't really figure out what'd look entirely different if I were using those replacers, too. There's things just floating in mid-air and major casperers that could be caused by this.

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Re: Spineinside's Exterior/Interior/Mesh showcase

Post by spineinside » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:03 pm

Hello Scamp,

In a meantime I am reworking the map repairing issues caused by replacers.

Also I will sick to your advices and prepare an update soon.

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