Haafingar Concepts

[roerich]

Tall buildings, more of a late medieval feel compared to the rest of the province. Most buildings are at least three stories high and very cramped, with narrow, labyrinthian streets and alleys. For the house layout, I'm thinking a stone foundation (covering the first floor), then dark wood and blue roof tiles with ironwork windows and decorations.



Blue Palace and castle situated on a rock in the northern part, the rest of the city slopes up towards this

[Scamp]

We'll need to see for how much elevation the environment is suited in this area, but I'd like to see some of what you described with the last four pictures. Very neat. I also like this about narrow streets and alleys, this should indeed be quite a bit different from the layout we've seen in TES : V. Solitude wasn't bad in TES : V, but we can do better.

[berry]

Great concepts, exactly how I imagined Haafingar myself. After some editing, would it perhaps be possible to create an architecture set for it from the meshes we got from the Andoran project combined with spineinside's set?

I agree the city was quite nice in TES V, it had it's flaws, though. For example, it always bugged me how illogical it's docks look like, not to mention how damn small they were (I liked the E.E.C. Warehouse though, plus the proximity of the swamps was a nice touch too, in my opinion). We need to turn the city more to the bay.

We'll need to see for how much elevation the environment is suited in this area, but I'd like to see some of what you described with the last four pictures.

Some time ago I took a few treks around the area, to check how it looks like and I believe it shouldn't be a big deal. There are some different mountains around, plus there's a lot space there to pull out virtually anything we can imagine. Some pictures presenting the area and surroundings, together with my thoughts:



Plus, there was this reddit thread. I think it's quite cool.

my apologies for being such a spammer today; from one extreme to another, eh?

[worsas]

If you put the blue palace on that forested hill as seen on your screenshots, the city will be much too big, I'm afraid.

We'll see how well we can develop a haafingar set from the Andoran resources. I don't want the houses to become too breton/imperial looking, though. This is also what I don't like about the concept pictures posted by Roerich. the city should remain more nordic in appearance, even if comparably imperialized. I've been toying with the thought of recreating the houses Dirnae once made for the city, because I liked all of their iterations quite a bit, but I may get bogged down with that at the moment. There are enough things to be done in other places. If Spineinside wants to work on a set, he is welcome to do so, though.

No worries about posting on this forum. This forum communication is what keeps the project alive and sparks good ideas.

[roerich]

I don't want the houses to become too breton/imperial looking, though. This is also what I don't like about the concept pictures posted by Roerich.

Please don't take the pictures too literal in how I imagine the city to look. I was trying to showcase how cramped and packed I imagined it to be, as well as some general city planning concepts, but not really any special building style. Well, except from pic #1 (which is TES V concept art of Solitude). I agree to maintain a distinct nordic feel, but having taller (2+ stories), smaller buildings than the average meadhall, and placing them in an even more cramped manner than in Karthwasten, creating dark alleyways and the image of a bustling semi-cosmopolitan city.

I haven't seen Dirnae's concepts, sounds interesting! I imagine some inspiration from TES V in having lots of stone, dark wood and blue-ish roof tiles.

[worsas]

I would hate to see Haafingar style from TES V used. But I agree that a more cosmopolitan and cramped city layout will work very well. The houses in TES V look great in and on themselves, but they are completely lacking the expression we were working on back then and that worked so well with the gloomy, foresty Haafinheim setting and the picture of the city as a place of wealth and commerce at the same time. The Solitude in TES V, opposedly, is mostly a town of imperial influence and control with a number of overhyped buildings and a mini harbour nobody can bother to visit.

Our Haafingar should be very different, as it is going to be snowy and surrounded by thick forest. Isolated, but open to the whole world via its harbour at the same time. Our houses from back then had an upper story made of dark wood with some intricate details (though different from the kind of detail seen on the Windhelm houses in TES V) to show the wealth of the inhabitants. The whole apperance of the houses was darker and cozier and less massive than in TES V, while the latter are very bulky and dirty. It is just a very different city concept altogether and I prefer ours.

[roerich]

I think we are on the same page. TES V's Solitude wasn't very appealing to me, and it was laughably small. Dark wood and cramped Nordic buildings is the way to go.

[Scamp]

Indeed TESV Solitude wasn't what we should be going for, so I agree with most of what's being said here. I'd like to see very narrow streets as seen in TR's Old Ebonheart (this refers to the overall "squeeze" ONLY, just to clear that up).

While Worsas and (more so) roerich seem to express some overall antipathy towards TES V Solitude, I feel the need to mention that I enjoyed it very much and I think it was indeed one of the better TES V cities. Very well, it was different from our version and conform to the size of the gameworld (and as such, seen in its context, not actually laughable at all, rather properly adapted), but on its own it wasn't a bad design imo. The context, which is a clear tint of imperial establishment and a relatively warm climate, matters. Whether that designed context was bad remains debatable, but how the city was depicted as a result of it was not bad design at all from my point of view.

[roerich]

Sorry if I was being too obtuse in my criticism of Solitude. I know TES V is necessarily scaled down, even more so than Morrowind was. It bothered me less with Windhelm or Markarth, because the stone walls and layouts of those cities gave the illusion of them being larger. The free standing houses of Solitude made it look really tiny, and the number of shops and taverns was small for a capitol, even in relativeness to the general amount of shops and taverns in TES V's cities. I appreciated the creative and fun design with the rock arch and harbor by the foot, but it didn't click with me in the game. It looked wrong to me, and didn't give me any impression of a bustling port city, largest city in Skyrim or a Nordic capital. The Imperial HQ aspect of Solitude seems to have overshadowed everything else it was supposed to be.

But different strokes and all. I can see some redeeming qualities of the city, and the design was very creative.

[worsas]

Here are some of the Haafingar houses that Dirnae was working on back then. They pose an earlier attempt at a house tileset that he ditched in favour of a more refined architecture. However, I like these for their continuity with the other nord houses we have and because they have some characteristics that I would like to retain.

These models don't exist anymore, but we could have an eye on them. while building our future haafingar set.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6dto258ytygs ... C7iia?dl=0

[Biboran]

Maybe it can be 2 cities in one area, like Sadrith mora and Wolverine hall in vanila game and Tel Narrusa with Helnim in TR.
One part of city is fully nordic big city like Dawnstar but with some big castles and rock towers in the city-center (like district on big rock in TESV), and second part is Solitude - large Imperial fort with district of houses, Imperial docs, east imperial trading company, and so on.

[roerich]

I think Haafingar should be decisively Nordic, although inspired by Imperial cities and molded by the trade going in and out of the city. The Imperial aspect should be the more cramped, medieval city layout and the higher houses (compared to what you'd expect to see in Kynholm etc.), as well as the mixed population compared to Eastern holds. Haafingar being a Nordic city works symbolically with Thian's dreams of independence and power, and it makes sense for a (former or current?) capital to represent the Nords in all aspects.

I like those pictures a lot, Worsas. Exactly how I imagined the colour and look of the wood and stone. I like the last photo in particular. Some of the buildings could be extended with an additional floor.

[berry]

I took this screen just today:



So it seems like there should be some cliff-like formations around the city and the bay, given how it's already showed or mentioned in two TES games.

Also: "By the cliffs of Solitude!" is a cool expression for us to borrow.

I like those pictures a lot, Worsas. Exactly how I imagined the colour and look of the wood and stone. I like the last photo in particular. Some of the buildings could be extended with an additional floor.

I agree. It's a pity we don't have them anymore. I wonder how these models would look like with greyish-tattered blue shingles, some of them could be dark-blue painted too. I think subtle touches with this gloomy colour would really fit in Haafingar, the city of Potema, and the contrast it would create with white and brown surroundings is consistent with our main motif for this hold:

SpoilerShow

edit: At least I think so. Because given on one hand:

Haafingar

• Expansionism
• Political maneuvers
• A new order
• Strength and dominance
• Reviving the past

and on another stuff like Horme, Volkihars, other Potema's pals, a spirit or just a legend of Pelagius, whatever beings living in these damn vast forests and other 'regressive' forces, we receive the image of a struggling, contradictory hold. That kind of contrast in architecture would visually underline this image.

If you put the blue palace on that forested hill as seen on your screenshots, the city will be much too big, I'm afraid.

Well, it doesn't have to be a part of the city per se. It could lay on it's own hill, next to a cliff edge, casting a shadow on the port below. I was thinking we could as well have some kind of royal park thrown between the palace and the Solitude. Additionally, I recall reading somewhere recently (in one of our books, or on teslore reddit, maybe?) how the palace was founded primarily with defence functions in mind, so that would require different approach to it than in TES V. Overall I believe it should much more grim as well.

[worsas]

There are several mentions of cliffs on the coasts of Skyrim across books and other references. So I'm totally into that.

[roerich]

Some of the TES V concept art for Solitude is actually pretty close to how I imagine it:

[Ted]

Opricnik picture for worsas
Can be city elete guard

[Luxray]

Is that a bear skin saddle? Very cool! I like the robe design, as well. Similar in colour to one of the shirts worsas made already.

[Ted]

Saddle - don't know lol. But all oprichniks had with them symbols - broom and head of the dog

[roerich]

[roerich]

A good a time as any to repost Dirnae's Haafingar houses, which were sadly lost. This is exactly how they should look. Especially the first four.

[spineinside]

Is Haafingar in development now using these meshes ?

[Infragris]

They were lost. The houses in the seventh pic are clearly edits of the common imperial houses.

[roerich]

Yup, the more unique ones are a better reference.