Orichalcum

Discussion of Elder Scrolls lore and how it will be used in SHotN
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roerich
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Orichalcum

Post by roerich » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:28 am

Saving this important tidbit from Discord.
R-Zero - Last Monday at 4:15 PM
Okay! Now that there's a SHotN channel, I'm gonna post about a thing that was on my mind for some time(edited)
specifically, "Orichalcum"
This is just my opinion, but I'm pretty sceptical about the inclusion of it
for 2 reasons
1) In my opinion, introducing it takes away from the characterization of Orcs as people
In vanilla, Morrowind, Orcish armor is described as being made of steel:
"Based on High Elven designs, orcish armor is an ornate but remarkably light steel plate worn over cloth padding. Light and comfortable by contrast with other steel plate designs, orcish armor commands premium prices from campaigning mercenary officers and style-conscious nobles."
You see, the only reason for it being so light and sturdy is the sheer level of Orcish craft
they take your normal dime a dozen steel and make something amazing from it
With Orichalcum introdiced, the reason for this quality shifts
towards where the quality of the raw material is the reason
2) It somewhat takes away from the mystery of Orichalcum too
originally, Orichalcum was only mentioned in relation to Orichalcum tower in Yokuda
well and in one other place
a second
"Put on your orichalcum hats, gentlemen, and keep on the lookout for Psijiics in the shrubbery. The Temple Zero Society has landed."
from here:
http://lagbt.wiwiland.net/wikibiblio/in ... ES:Reman_I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The point is, Orichalcum was supposed to be this highly arcane and obscure material
Form another continent no less
Would be much better if there was a limited abount of Orichalcum items, brought from Yokuda back in the time of Ra'Gada
with them being awfully rare and almost legendary
Well, this is my take on it at least


roerich - Last Tuesday at 4:46 PM
removing orichalcum ore containers and making the ingredient itself extremely rare seems fine by me.
i never liked the orc association from TES V either

Infragris - Last Tuesday at 6:24 PM
This has my vote as well. The orichalcum connection seems literally as shallow as "it sounds lik orc"
The fact that it undermines the qualities of high orc craftmanship has always bothered me as well

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Re: Orichalcum

Post by worsas » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:47 am

You guys are totally right about that stuff.

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roerich
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by roerich » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:03 pm

We can keep it in a few very obscure locations. And make it ridiculously expensive.

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berry
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by berry » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:23 pm

Hm, I thought in SHotN we aren't actually associating orichalcum with Orsimers? I can't recall a discussion about that. TES V route here certainly wouldn't be proper for TES III. So about that, I agree.

I wouldn't ban orichalcum out of Tamriel, though, but I agree on cutting it's quantinty down even further and rising it's price. I for one consider it fitting to be a (well) hidden true wealth of the Reach. To be honest, I always thought ancient Direnni stuff was made from an alloy containing orichalcum, hence it's greenish colour... but now I can't seem to find any indication for that concept on our boards, huh. :P Must have made it up myself. Anyway I had this headcannon when working on Amrothal mine that Direnni got so far north in barbaric lands actually mostly in search for orichalcum, or some other rare ores/gems as well. They certainly have this thing for rare metals, given their relation to the Ur-Tower and how they were the first to look at a substance of Tamriel and discover magic inside it, creating the alchemy.

I'm not that good at lore, so I might be embarassing myself now, but what about pairing Orichalcum in a dichotomy with Adamantium, where the first one would be a "mundane ore", essence of the core of Tamriel, and the latter - a "metaphysical ore" (Ebony can be described as a "divine ore" then, but that's different story)? Both would be highly valued and sought after by ancient Direnni.

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roerich
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by roerich » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:25 pm

I'd rather just use Adamantium in place of Orichalcum, and use the description by R-Zero as a guideline instead.

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Re: Orichalcum

Post by Infragris » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:51 pm

Quest idea: a smith is convinced that orichalcum is the secret to Orcish metalwork, and pays the player to procure some ore for him. The moment he actually puts it in his furnace, his whole house blows up.

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roerich
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by roerich » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:55 pm

Excellent. This should happen in one of the building types that we have ruined versions of.

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R-Zero
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by R-Zero » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:31 pm

The way I personally see it, Orichalcum would better be a semi-legendary material - there are several ancient, unique items, armors and weapons, which are supposedly made from Orichalcum, all brought from Yokuda by Ra Gada, with no actual ore sources on Tamriel. If one wants to make a new Orichalcum item, they woud need to take existing ones and find some old ass Yoku hermit smith in the middle of Alik'r to reforge it.
Basically, something like the situation with Daedric armor in vanilla Morrowind.

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Re: Orichalcum

Post by Melchior Dahrk » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:07 am

Agree 100% on Reizeron on this. Finding Orichalcum in TESV and learning it was used to make Orcish armor where I could only assume they just linked it phonetically given that before it was only tied to Yokuda, was the first major disappointment I had with the game. Felt so shallow.

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Re: Orichalcum

Post by berry » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:44 pm

I'm still not really sure about it. I agree it was shallow to tie orichalcum to Orsimers, and we certainly need some more interesting lore tidbits regarding Redguards. The problem is we already have these rather cool looking ingredient and container for orichalcum ore, and it would be a waste to throw it down the drain. edit: not to mention the work required to make sure there are no floaters etc brought to life by removing the ingredient; removing some unfitting containers by hand wouldn't be that much of a problem

Idea; why don't we adjust orichalcum's texture's tune and transparency a bit and make it a malachite?* Ie. not TES V's "glass suddenly not called glass for no apparent reason", but a generic ingredient as seen in Daggerfall already.

We could still use Infragris' quest idea then, only the smith would be sure he's found a way to steal Dunmer glass armour technology.

* and by "we" I mean asset department folks. :P sorry for continuously being a jerk suggesting more and more work

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roerich
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by roerich » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:25 pm

Malachite could work (only used as a gemstone?)

Or we could go with copper (retexture)
http://2.wlimg.com/product_images/bc-fu ... 878815.jpg Or gold (retexture)
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/233 ... 4CA2793380 I can't remember if either are already present in Tamriel_Data. But making a retexture would solve the problems proposed above.

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R-Zero
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by R-Zero » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:46 am

berry wrote: Idea; why don't we adjust orichalcum's texture's tune and transparency a bit and make it a malachite?* Ie. not TES V's "glass suddenly not called glass for no apparent reason", but a generic ingredient as seen in Daggerfall already.
I completely agree with this, great idea. More Daggerfall things is always good in my opinion.
Now, what about the khajiitsuits :D

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Re: Orichalcum

Post by worsas » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:17 pm

While this whole orichalcum issue is certainly there, I wonder if your approach isn't taking it too much to the extreme. There has never been anything saying there couldn't be any orichalcum on Tamriel, even though it was exclusively mentioned in connection with yokuda previously. I could still see it as an ore found in Hammerfell and bordering areas like the Reach, even if it should be much rarer than it currently is.

I wouldn't make it that crazily expensive, either, at least not more expensive than adamantium or ebony. There could be several reasons making it much less interesting than Ebony, which is actively mined by the empire, whereas Orichalcum apparently isn't. It could be mainly a substance of alchemical usage nowadays with some usage for exotic alloys created by Redguards and possibly Orcs? If their steel contained like 2% Orichalcum beneath a multitude of other inmixed metals, how would that diminish their craftmanship? it would help to somewhat reconcile our take on the material with Skyrims.

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R-Zero
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Re: Orichalcum

Post by R-Zero » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 pm

worsas wrote:While this whole orichalcum issue is certainly there, I wonder if your approach isn't taking it too much to the extreme. There has never been anything saying there couldn't be any orichalcum on Tamriel, even though it was exclusively mentioned in connection with yokuda previously. I could still see it as an ore found in Hammerfell and bordering areas like the Reach, even if it should be much rarer than it currently is.
One of the reasons I proposed this interpretation of Orichalcum is that ES universe is severely lacking in legendary/mythological materials. I mean, there is Ebony, there is Adamantium, there is Dwarven metal, there is Daedric ebony - but all these are very tangible, despite being quite rare and having magical/mythic origins. I hoped Orichalcum could fill this niche of a material that's only known from legends, especially considering how very scarce are the mentions of it in pre-Skyrim lore. Also, it no longer having available sources would play very well with Yokuda being this world's Atlantis-like Lost Continent.

In my opinion, this one of those situations where the lack of something add more to the world than the presense of it.

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Re: Orichalcum

Post by Istreddify » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:14 pm

berry wrote:I'm still not really sure about it. I agree it was shallow to tie orichalcum to Orsimers, and we certainly need some more interesting lore tidbits regarding Redguards. The problem is we already have these rather cool looking ingredient and container for orichalcum ore, and it would be a waste to throw it down the drain. edit: not to mention the work required to make sure there are no floaters etc brought to life by removing the ingredient; removing some unfitting containers by hand wouldn't be that much of a problem
Couldn't this be easily solved by renaming those assets?

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