Falmer

Discussion of Elder Scrolls lore and how it will be used in SHotN
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Yeti
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Falmer

Post by Yeti » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:12 pm

A general concept proposal:

The Falmer were a primarily nomadic culture, eking out a natural existence in the frozen wastelands of northern Tamriel. They did not build many permanent structures, explaining the seemingly complete disappearance of any trace of their race from Skyrim's landscape. Lost shrines to their gods (possible super secret dungeons) might have been built atop the province's tallest peaks, where their priests could dwell in isolation and dedicate all their energies to worshiping the divine (and perhaps covertly contributing to the Aldmer's designs to return Nirn to an immortal plane of existence). High Hrothgar was their tower.

Possible origins:

1. The broke away from their southern brethren to dwell in the north through centuries of migration, though their reasons for settling the unforgiving terrain should remain vague (or a complete mystery). They may have been a race spawned from outcasts of conventional Aldmer society

2. They were a tribe of mer that fled Aldmeris separately and never lived on the Isle of Summerset, perhaps leading the Aldmer to view the Falmer as heretics/savages.

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Re: Falmer

Post by worsas » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:27 pm

We could use this uncertainty regarding their origin and have some imperial historians speculate in great lengths about it. I like the idea of viewing them as a nomadic culture that maybe contributed to the development of the nord culture more than commonly known.

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Infragris
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Re: Falmer

Post by Infragris » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:00 pm

Here's a tidbit about early Elven colonization efforts:

There appear to be lots of smaller Elven splinter factions colonizing Tamriel in the Late Merethic Era: Bosmer, Dwemer, Khajiiti root, Ayleid, etc. usually due to religious or philosophical differences with mainstream Aldmeri culture. The highly stratified society of Summerset was resistant to revolution due to the presence of Crystal-like-Law and the ancestor-gods like Trinimac, making exodus the favored form of dissent. The Aldmeri appear to have been permissive of this kind of emigration, only forbidding it by the time of the Dunmeri/Chimeri exodus, when the nations of Valenwood and the Ayleid Hegemony started becoming rivals to the dominion of Alinor.

The Falmer were likely members of this early, ill-documented wave of colonization. Elven colonies tended to spring up along the shorelines of Tamriel (the exception being the Ayleid, who followed the Niben to its origin), meaning that the Falmer must have landed on Skyrim's north shore (following the path of Topal the Explorer, who sailed around Tamriel starting from the northwest) and later made their way inland. For the Falmer to become nomads is actually quite likely, as the same thing occurred with the Dunmer: though the initial Velothi civilization appeared to be sedentary, Chimeri society was almost completely nomadic (after the model of the Ashlanders) when the Nords arrived.

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Yeti
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Re: Falmer

Post by Yeti » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:56 pm

Thanks for the insights, Infragris. Your explanation looks like the most logical explanation. We should probably keep the reason for the Falmer's initial exodus a mystery, like with the Dwemer.

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Re: Falmer

Post by Ted » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:03 pm

I do not know I'm writing this post to the right place or not, but Ice Tribes from TES Dawnstar and Shadowkey have connection with Falmers?

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Re: Falmer

Post by worsas » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:02 am

They were probably meant to be falmer. We can either put them in a category with Rieklings or treat them as evidence for living Falmer in Skyrim.

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Re: Falmer

Post by achanguitar » Fri May 27, 2016 7:21 am

I don't know if i post this in right place, but i wanna ask something about the Falmer or "Snow Elves"
Will we see or obtain some of Falmer's legacy like ruins, artifacts or any trace of their culture in SHOTN version Skyrim?

I know they are a "lost civilization" and obliterated by Ysgramor and Co. long, long time ago, but i really don't like that you couldn't see the trace of their ancient civilization in TES V : Skyrim (not those blind, deformed elves and their strange chitin-made weapons and armor, i mean the ancient falmer that battle against Ysgramor and 500 Companions). You can only see how their culture looked like if you install one of the expansion and it's simply doesn't make sense for me, because while Nords living in Skyrim now, Falmer OWNS the place before Atmorans even set their sails there, so there must be more evidence that Falmer were living in Skyrim.
"... Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
Wulf (Tiber Septim) from TES III : Morrowind

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Re: Falmer

Post by worsas » Fri May 27, 2016 8:26 am

The general consensus around here is that the Falmer had a nomadic lifestyle. This would already explain the absense of ruins, but would still allow for archeological findings like jars or other things made of durable materials (we do have those in data actually and they are displayed in a museum in Markarth). I or we are still considering some kind of falmer sanctuary ruins, as we are a bit low with ruin types for the inside of the province. But we would probably deviate from Bethesdas representation seen in Dawnguard a fair bit then.

The Falmer are still a very mysterious topic. We know nearly nothing about them and a basic characterisation would probably help to decide what to do further about possible remnants.

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Re: Falmer

Post by R-Zero » Fri May 27, 2016 8:36 am

According to the "In Search of the Falmer" quest, Snow Elves were at least advanced enough to make steel armor. Can nomadic lifestyle support the necessary technology?

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Re: Falmer

Post by roerich » Fri May 27, 2016 10:36 am

I think the Falmer were mostly nomadic, but had cities and strongholds in which they gathered temporarily during the harshest winter, meeting for councils and trading. These were otherwise reserved for their highest castes. I don't think they were that primitive, but they could have had a special sacred relationship with the land and a culture/religion which promoted the nomadic lifestyle. Indeed it's still a topic that we should be explore more.

It should be noted that the armor on Solstheim belonged to one of their mightiest leaders.

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Re: Falmer

Post by Jet133 » Fri May 27, 2016 11:31 pm

I feel like they should have some sort of special location that is equivalent to a Mecca or a Vaes Dothrak (for any Game of Thrones fans). A one of a kind unique location/temple/village that is a permanent ruin. I'm imagining something like Mesa Verde except made of ice and glaciers instead of adobe and stone (or even stalhrim unless the decision was made to leave that only for Solstheim). Either way I think that would be a cool architectural idea. Southwestern Native American pueblos but made of ice.

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Re: Falmer

Post by roerich » Sat May 28, 2016 9:08 am

Something like Vaes Dothrak is actually just was I was thinking about in my earlier post.

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Re: Falmer

Post by roerich » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:49 am

When and if we have Falmer ruins, these should be located near the tops of completely remote and impassable mountains. The exploration of Falmer ruins should be a huge reveal, similar to when you meet the last living Dwemer. You might even need levitation to get there. If we should have any organic remnants of Falmer besides frozen bones, I think a concept like self-mummification would be interesting. Falmer religious figures isolating themselves in sacred caves, meditating and starving to their death. Sitting in frozen solitude for eras, until the player stumbles upon their remains. Too similar to the ash mummies of Vvardenfell?
According to Victor H. Mair in the Discovery Channel series The Mystery of the Tibetan Mummy, the self-mummification of a Tibetan monk, who died ca. 1475 and whose body was retrieved relatively incorrupt in the 1990s, was achieved by the sophisticated practices of meditation, coupled with prolonged starvation and slow self-suffocation using a special belt that connected the neck with his knees in a lotus position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_mummies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another architectural inspiration could be the Incan Empire with the large stone blocks and mountainous locations.
[hsimg=]http://www.domusweb.it/content/dam/domu ... 1_UPD1.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cbb1z6uW4AAN4Eo.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... cd9323.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://www.crystalinks.com/tiwanakustonehead.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://www.globocation.com/wp-content/u ... Picchu.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://www.rutahsa.com/mp3w-4m.jpg[/hsimg]

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Re: Falmer

Post by R-Zero » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:55 pm

I found a really cool Falmer idea today.
I believe Falmer architecture, with few exceptions, was a form of Magical Ice. Once the falmer were destroyed, that ice melted, and so no remains are left.
IMO, it just makes a lot of sense. We already know of one enchanted ice type (stalhrim), and there's an ice castle on Solstheim (which is of course a bit crude to be of elven origin, but still has some nice things, like magical icy light sources).
Image

Altmer supposedly have cities built of glass, and one could say ice is not unlike it, so it would be an ice connection too. (sorry)

So yeah, how about featuring a couple of lost unmelted Falmer ice locations in SHotN? They could be centered around a magical source that haven't ran dry yet, like those magicka wells, or great welkynd stones Ayleids had. There could also be a nice dynamic change in these locations once Player destroys or steals the source - the ice walls begin cracking, waterfalls appear everywhere, water level rises, previously unmovable ice doors guarding treasures melt away, all the fun stuff like this.
Last edited by R-Zero on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Falmer

Post by roerich » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:01 pm

Love it.

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Re: Falmer

Post by R-Zero » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:44 pm

Another thing I forgot to say - this could potentially add a new side to the ancient conflict between Nords and Falmeri -the elves used enchanted ice for their buildings, but it required quite a bit of magicka to support, while stalhrim is seemingly stable. So Falmer coveted the secret of stalhrim so they could make their ice fortresses everlasting, while Nords used the stalhrim only for sacred rituals of burial and saw elven magic ice as a profane imitation.

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berry
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Re: Falmer

Post by berry » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:59 pm

That sounds great, like a missing puzzle piece for Falmer conceptualization. I imagine the main axis of conflict might have been much more mundane than profaning Stalhrim, then - Falmers needed frost for their civilization to survive, and maintained it with their magic, and on the other hand Nords civilization needed heat to live and grow from its infancy. The clash was inevitable.

How feasible would Karstaag's tileset be here? If I remember correctly it isn't versatile at all, with one-piece meshes and so on. Would it require much work to cut it into something more or less tileable?

There were also these two mods by Vality and MA, too, that we should check: But unless I'm mistaken, they just operate on PC's Ayelid assets and retextured vanilla daedric tileset?

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Re: Falmer

Post by roerich » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:04 pm

While I like the idea, I don't think it should be the defining characteristic of their culture. Much more of a hidden tidbit of lore that will be revealed only when you find one of the very few remaining ice temples.

And we'd need a new tileset for it.

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R-Zero
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Re: Falmer

Post by R-Zero » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:56 pm

roerich wrote:While I like the idea, I don't think it should be the defining characteristic of their culture. Much more of a hidden tidbit of lore that will be revealed only when you find one of the very few remaining ice temples.

And we'd need a new tileset for it.
Agree on both points. Although I can imagine modern Nords thinking of Falmer as just one-dimensional ice fairies.

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Re: Falmer

Post by berry » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:33 pm

I know it's too early to discuss things like that, but I found this eerie sound recently and I'm in love with it. Maybe it can work as Falmer ice-magic sound, to be placed by some Falmer artifacts/altars? Imagine it in an unwelcoming, melting, frozen dungeon, accompanied with vanilla cave_drip and icecracking sounds.

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Re: Falmer

Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:33 am

Heh, it reminds me of the opening bar of Peaceful Waters.

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Fullmetalnyuu
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Re: Falmer

Post by Fullmetalnyuu » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:00 pm

I love that sound, I almost think that an extended, softer version could be used as a sort of ambiance in Falmer structures
Sheathe your swords. Lay your shields on the ground. You will need no weapon and no armor, for the Magicka within you will be your guard and your guide from this day forward.

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Re: Falmer

Post by Undertaker » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:17 am

What about making Falmers descendands of the Orsimer? This would explain their origin/savage lifestyle pretty good.

Let's say they were the Aldmer (?) that were so angry and confused after being changed into Orsimer that they believed some kind of prophet (too similar to Veloth?) that they have left for spiritual journey to the snow covered lands.

As for cultural inspiration (earlier mentioned were Buddhist/Incans) why not take the easy way and base them on Inuits?

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