Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Threads related to coordination in lore, border regions, objects, implementation, etc with Tamriel Rebuilt
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Infragris
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Infragris » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:40 am

Great stuff. I assume the prefix codes are all decided now? If you can post a basic overview, I can start using them for current WIP models.

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:38 pm

I have updated the first post here to account for the changes in prefixes and suffixes that have taken place in the creation of the file. The examples have been removed for the time being as many ids turned out different in the translation file. I will add some of those as examples later.

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:04 pm

Believe it or not: Here is a full translation file for all three datas. Next comes the patching process and misc preparations. Seneca at TR is going to write a program to create the new data and patch our esp-files.

Still feel invited to have a peek on the id-map and give feedback, if you notice anything that does not seem right to you yet.
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Infragris
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Infragris » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:16 pm

These all seem very logical, although the difference between province an race prefixes would have to be very clear in model claims.

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Atrayonis
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Atrayonis » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:31 pm

Cross-posting to Tamriel Rebuilt

Right, the Elephant in the room which I feel I must mention is Black Marsh. Progress is currently ongoing on TR's side, so I'm not posting about that just yet.

The topic at hand is TR's Redoran questline and SHotN's Rise of High King Thian.

The Redoran questline (still in discussion) is thought to start as a minor conflict with House Hlaalu, but will eventually evolve into an effort to keep the native Nords, the Nail-Knock Reavers, pacified.
A big part in this will be where the Reavers got the money and arms to stage their uprising from.

The obvious culprit is the Thian's kingdom, Haafinheim (Solitude).

To recap, in TES canon the Kingdom of Solitude:
  • As of The Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition, have occupied Roscrea
  • As of The Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition, are going after all Imperial Territory they can
  • As of Oblivion in-game dialogue, are in the process of occupying Solstheim and beating the Redoran black and blue
  • As of Skyrim dialogue and books, gave Solstheim to the Dunmer as a show of support, which implies that they owned it as thoroughly as they could prior to the 4th era
I feel it would be helpful to coordinate how Haafinheim develops during Shotn's questline and how it would fit into the timeframe of TR's Redoran questline. As Oblivion (its fractal terribleness aside) is still the best view into Tamriel's future, I think Haafinheim's slow digestion of Roscrea and slow grasping towards Redoran territory (and Solstheim) is something that we could bounce off each other.

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:10 pm

First and foremostly, we need to settle on a final name for the hold. If TR want to reference Solitudes expansionism, they will probably refer to it either as Solitude or Haafingar. Not sure if it would make sense to establish the non-canon name Haafinheim, as it might be offputting to outside people.

Also, I've recently written up some keywords on how Haafingar has been planned on our part so far, if that helps anything:
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=626" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There has also been discussion on a possible secret police in the service of King Thian. Ruthless elite warriors, led by a core of vampire generals that survived the defeat of Queen Potema. We wanted to name this subfaction "Oprichniki" (Oprichnek), but that name has been critizied, as it's basically the name of a group of a russian warrior caste of real world history. The idea for the name came up in the early days of SHOTN and can be changed at need.

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roerich
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by roerich » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:37 pm

Thian being the culprit here would surely make sense. He has probably sent a vassal, an agent of the elite group worsas mentions, to carry out this covert operation.

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Ted
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:27 am

Oprichniki
Wow, why this? I'am not aginst real world names and slavic stuff is great, but this... tamriel is not "cnc red alert" for names like this and with russian plural noun. They can look like real life opeichniks, but can be name be different? Russian community of the game is very huge and they find it very silly, like "vodka balalaika stalin" :)

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R-Zero
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by R-Zero » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:16 am

Ted wrote: Wow, why this? I'am not aginst real world names and slavic stuff is great, but this... tamriel is not "cnc red alert" for names like this and with russian plural noun. They can look like real life opeichniks, but can be name be different? Russian community of the game is very huge and they find it very silly, like "vodka balalaika stalin" :)
Can confirm, "oprichnina" is a very well-known term and a part of essential school program, 99% of Russian people will instantly recognize this word.

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roerich
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by roerich » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:43 am

That name is at least two forum transitions old. :-D We will find a new name.

How about the Vorgas Guard?

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:00 pm

How about making King Thian an imperial? We could say that the intermarriage with the Imperial nobility thinned out his nord blood so much that he's practically an Imperial by now. This might give a funny effect the first time the player actually gets to meet him and would turn the whole thing into another imperial VS imperial intrigue in the end.

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R-Zero
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by R-Zero » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:41 pm

roerich wrote:How about the Vorgas Guard?
This sounds nice. Will they be of Volkihar bloodline, or some other?

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Atrayonis
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Atrayonis » Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:55 pm

Very helpful, thanks a ton.

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:04 pm

Would some of our interior- and exterior-modders be prepared to have a closer look at the ids as they have been collected and put into an excel file by Seneca here?
I think it would be helpful to hear your outside views on it, as they are eventually intended to be used by you people and I can currently only argue about them with regards to my own limited perspective.

Btw. if you see duplicated ids on the right side, those objects will get merged into one.

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by berry » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:18 pm

From what I've seen, having skimmed through SHotN assets, I have a little problem with assigning silver palms and poppies/wrothgarian grapes to Hammerfell and High Rock, respectively. Bjoulsae rose is probably fine, as it isn't supposed to be native to nordic Reach, but the rest of those are commonly used in the regions we are currently working on, so it might be a little fuss. On the second hand, they probably should be labelled as such for modders outside PT, who wouldn't be familiar with those, and we are close to finishing the regions using these plants anyway, so I can probably live with that. :P

Image

I don't know about the others, but "Hig" sounds quite unintuitive to me as an abbreviation for High Rock. Why don't we stick with HR?

I think I don't have any more remarks. The amount of work you put into it is astounding, thank you very much for this. I can't wait to get my hands on some new imported goods for Dragonstar. 8-)

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:55 am

Hig can be changed. it's not the nicest abbreviation anyway, just been using it, as it's so obviously meaning nothing else but highrock. I've been approaching the regional assets matter as idealistic as possible, making domica redwort and arrowroot, val, ginko ham and nightshade els, as described in the flora of Tamriel - book. The main focus of the new data files is supposed to have a broader scope, rather than taking all the coordination work away. Regions need some kind of whitelist of the flora that can be used in them, anyway.

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by berry » Mon May 16, 2016 2:11 pm

A technical idea for making all 3 mods interact with each other. Would it work if we add to each mod's master file 3 new globals, for example TR_state, PC_state, SHotN_state, set to 0 by default, and then add startup scripts to specific mod, switching that value to 1? That way, if we want to have a quest in Cyrodiil that would require a travel to the Reach, it would be easy enough to add

Code: Select all

If ( SHotN_state == 0 )
	disable
return 
elseif enable blablabla
endif

etc at the beginning of questgiver's scrypt. With common data merge everything else (required IDs from linked province) would already be accessible for PC modder, right?

I know that's nothing really revolutionary, and you merging-guys probably were thinking about that already, but I just got dazed by the possibilites it would open. :P

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Atrayonis » Sun May 22, 2016 6:06 pm

Hi. As per worsas' suggestion, TR has created a cross-project coordination forum so we can post things without having to worry about cluttering up the main thread. It's here, under our Planning category.

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Sun May 22, 2016 7:49 pm

Uploading the newest version of the translation file, so you can keep up with the changes, if you want to.
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:46 pm

An update to the translation file with ids for all new objects and new ids for groundtextures, scripts, sounds, factions and classes.
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:28 pm

Hey guys,

it's finally here.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B06OJz ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please note that I have included a lowres version of our own assets as default that TR can use. We'd still distribute our full-resolution assets with our releases, however.

There is a filepatcher program included, which you can use to patch savegames and working files. After patching you will have to open your working file and re-save all scripts added by your esp manually, so the bytecode gets updated.

This is a test version of Tamriel-Data for your guys to test out and see how well it works for us.

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Infragris
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Infragris » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:57 pm

the promised .bsa that will deliver us, as was foretold by the prophets

EDIT: I had a quick look around and everything looks very good. I like the way the new organization system puts resources of a similar origin closer together. I'll try the filepatcher tomorrow.

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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by berry » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:40 pm

Hey, it's not nearly half that big as I feared it would be! Cool. I guess downsized textures really make a difference? Or maybe so many objects were doubled over the projects?

It's damn great to have it. Off to testing I go!

edit: Should we be using this thread for error reporting? What I've got so far:
  • T_Com_WoodenCup_01 has a missing mesh - the path still tries to use SHotN's localisation.
  • T_Mw_Fau_Nixm_01 (Nix-Mount) looks all strange - especially on the "helmet" part and on the paws, especially, like it's just untextured area with a dark green paint over it, but maybe that's caused by PB's Nixhound replacer, since I think it the Mount uses vanilla textures?

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:32 pm

I guess downsized textures really make a difference? Or maybe so many objects were doubled over the projects?
It's the downsized textures all the way. The size difference between the bsa with fullsize textures and this one is nearly 1GB.
Error reporting is fine. I'm happy to have any feedback after months of preparation work.

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berry
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by berry » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:55 pm

Wow, that's a huge ratio indeed then. I hope it won't sound offensive to you folks of PT's assets departments, but my laic eye doesn't actually see much difference in quality of our objects with these downsized textures too, at least in CS render window (I haven't gotten past CS phase of testing yet). I'd say that in quick glance a decrease in quality is noticable mostly when it comes to alpha textures (fur on trolls or mammoths, webs...) or these more in-detail ones, like Spineinside's signs. Maybe these can be returned to their original size even in this downsized bsas? Would it affect the size of the archive much?

Some more things I noticed:
  • T_Imp_KOTN_Cuirass_01 (Knights of the Nine cuirass) misses models - both ground and body part
  • T_Com_Set_Waterwheel_01 is currently set as static. Would it's animation work that way?
  • nix hound trophy (T_Com_Furn_TrophNixhound_01) shares the texture issues I mentioned earlier with nix mount model
It's a stunning job, worsas, I'm eager to have us work depending on this file (Dragonstar!). Thank you for that enormous effort you did here. :) I also concur with guys at TR - this naming scheme feels intuitive indeed.

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Infragris
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Infragris » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:51 pm

Not really sure why we have a KOTN cuirass? It's not really an armor set we have a use for, realistically.

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:22 am

Not really sure why we have a KOTN cuirass? It's not really an armor set we have a use for, realistically.
I forgot to delete it.
T_Com_Set_Waterwheel_01 is currently set as static. Would it's animation work that way?
Yes. Also, all of the water layers by dongle are now put to the statics. These animations don't require the object to be an activator. They are based on a special animation node that works with static objects.

Regarding the nixhound/nixmount - objects.. they are TRs business at the moment. I have actually re-rigged the nixmount to the nixhound-skeleton in the past, but it's full of imperfections. Currently the creature is used purely for rickshaw travel service in indoril areas and these mounts are only seen playing their idle animations, where these issues are less apparent.

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Atrayonis
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by Atrayonis » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:55 pm

If the nixmount causes issues with replacers, it's probably because it uses vanilla assets. It's too old to be replacer-aware.
I'm not sure what issues there are, specifically. Could you post a screenshot or a more verbose explanation?

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berry
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by berry » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:53 pm

Sure. From left to right: new nixhound model by PeterBitt, nixmount, nixhound's trophy.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/JUbRkT3.png[/hsimg]

That's the mod. From what I can see in it's archive, it doesn't have any textures overwriting vanilla though, and yet I still have tx_nixhound 02.dds coming from that mod in textures folder of that MW's install :/ Maybe I'm using an obsolete version of this replacer? Anyway, sorry for the fuss, if nobody else reports that error, it's just a silly goof on my part. :roll:

Edit: Yeah, it's an obsolete version, probably. I don't even have that tx_NixHound.dds file in Textures\PB directory there.

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worsas
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Re: Cross-Project Cooperation Coordination

Post by worsas » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:19 am

Hey,

it would be good if anyone with a little bit of time this week could have another indepth-look at the data files to see if there is anything left that doesn't appear ideal or is maybe even wrong or impractical.

I intend to create the final version of the data files soon and then it would be ideal to have addressed anything that would potentially cause trouble in the long run.

Also, it was suggested to switch from underscore separation to a camelCase way of writing by LondonRook. The advantage would be that it would free some letters for the creation of an id, but it would also be something that needs to be gotten used to. Object-ids in Oblivion and Skyrim use that kind of writing ids.

Current underscore way of separation examples:

Code: Select all

T_Imp_Highway_MStoneOrang_01
T_Sky_TerrRockRE_RockSml_11
T_Mw_FloraGM_PuffShroom_01
Alternative camelCase separation:

Code: Select all

TImpHighwayMstoneOrange01
TSkyTerrrockRERockSmall11
TMwFloraGMPuffshroom01
This would be a legiblity VS technical convenience of having more letters + a more modern id convention that would be more familiar to people using modern engine kits like unity - tradeoff. I would like to hear what you think about it.

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