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Daedric Summonings in High Rock

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:46 am
by Miraclestone
Daedric summoning was the only way to interact with the Daedric Princes in TES:II, the game which they were also introduced in. From what we know of the Breton these summonings are very in their character, fitting much better than the organized religion/cult style of the Daedric statues in TES:III and TES:IV. This is why I am suggesting that this element remain a part of High Rock's identity and be enabled as gameplay.

This being said, the summoning in TES:II was rather limited. There was only one way to summon; by paying witch covens and mages guild on the EXACT right day on the yearly calendar. This is pretty constraining and doesn't play well with the style of TES:III. This is why expanding the ways summoning can work would be beneficial. Here are the four summoning methods ThomasRuz and I came up with on discord.

1) Pay a witch coven or mages guild on the summoning day of a Daedric Prince to summon them. This would cost ALOT of money but the player would not need the specific items required for the summoning and it will be a 100% success rate. Witch covens may give cheaper prices but will only do it for the Daedra they are associated with.
2) Find a summoning circle/daedric alter and preform a summoning with the right offering items for the Daedra you are trying to summon on their summoning day. This will be effected by the PC's conjuration skill.
3) Find a summoning circle/daedric alter and preform a summoning with the right offering items for the Daedra you are trying to summon after meeting a certain hidden requirement. This may be for example killing 5 innocent people the day of your attempted summon of Melepha or trying while there is a thunderstorm for Sheogorath. There would be characters and books which mention the methods but they would be very hard to find. This would have a higher base success rate than summoning day rituals but it would still be effected by conjuration.
4) Meeting a certain milestone with a NPC who is either a master conjurer or someone who is very devoted to a certain Daedra and asking them to do the summoning. This will be free of every requirement but the specific offerings needed and will have a 100% success rate. Examples of characters who may have this are a Orc priest of Malacath you need to help in Orsinium or a rouge Conjurer who needs to be charmed in a dungeon. They probably wouldn't do this very often for you or if you have a bad relationship with the Daedra.

ThomasRuz mentioned the idea of adding a book to Tamriel Data called “Daedric Summoning: Witch Rites” which would go into detail about what offerings you need and when the dates are. A failed summoning (wrong day, wrong offering, bad skillcheck) will result in the PC being hit with a negative effect. This negative effect will be associated with the Daedra that the player tried to summon; in the case of both the wrong day and the wrong offering it will just be a random effect from one of the Princes. Lastly, there is a 10% chance that Sheogorath would show up instead of the Daedra you were trying to summon in TES:II and I believe this concept should persist in our summoning model.

Re: Daedric Summonings in High Rock

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:32 pm
by Infragris
i know that this would be a departure from Daggerfall lore, but I feel like it might be a good idea to expand the number of days a given daedra can be summoned per year. Waiting an entire year for the correct date, missing the appropriate day or just not getting your one chance because there's a thunderstorm are not very fun gameplay, and could lead to immersion-destroying behavior (like waiting an entire year for the next opportunity).

You could bump it up to six or even twelve times a year, or tie the day to an irregular event (like thunderstorms for Sheogorath). Changes like these could be explained as "recent advances in the art of summoning", advanced numerological or astrological calculations, or legalistic loopholes like using a different calendar or tradition.

Re: Daedric Summonings in High Rock

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:09 am
by Miraclestone
I was thinking that the REAL way to do it would be the hidden method or finding a Daedric associated individual to do it. Both methods would allow the player to do it on ANY day and would also be a reward to the player for finding out more about the Daedra by helping its mortal followers or raiding witch covens for secrets. I understand what you are saying though, maybe we can increase the number to 4 evenly spread throughout the year. I think any more would diminish the importance of the whole affair and make the any day methods less special/useful.

Re: Daedric Summonings in High Rock

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:13 am
by Infragris
Four days might be best. The thing I fear is that, when giving the player the option to summon the daedra at any time, the summoning days will become completely superfluous: when given the option to simply wait for something or do a fun quest to attain it, most people will choose the quest (and they'd be right to).

Re: Daedric Summonings in High Rock

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:45 pm
by Miraclestone
From the PM conversation between Thomas and Zinitrad over Daedric Summonings
Zinitrad - Today at 9:56 AM
yeah, more or less
a sort of holdover of the ancient nedic druidism and shamanism that featured rituals to various aedra and daedra, some sanctioned form that has survived the shift in culture as a specialized role, though one who's mythos and methods have been shaped significantly by elven lore
Zinitrad - Today at 10:01 AM
this 'sanctioned' interaction by a specialized class (as opposed to the wild and outcast covens and druidic societies) is one of the domains of Archei the ritualist, alongside the general performance of ritualism and ceremony, folk magic traditions, burial, and being the psychopomp for the journey through death
ThomasRuz - Today at 10:03 AM
So a priest of Archei would both be knowledgeable about Aedra/Daedra interaction, and more normal ceremonies?
That makes for an interesting dynamic
Zinitrad - Today at 10:04 AM
like I said, its members of Archei's chapel who I imagined to be the dudes in the temples in daggerfall who would let you talk to daedra
but also, the guy who prepares the special ceremonial wax to be burned in candles on whatever holiday, or at least the guy who watches over this preparation
would theoretically be in some way or another acting in the name of Archei
ThomasRuz - Today at 10:06 AM
We have talked about interaction of Daedra before, but more in the sense of the wild/outcast method, which is very costly
Zinitrad - Today at 10:07 AM
wild/outcast is what I imagine to have more direct interaction with them
Archein ritualism is more like glimpses, gleamings, very controlled but limited invocations and exchanges
ThomasRuz - Today at 10:09 AM
Yes, I do think story-wise and gameplay wise that kind of difference between interaction is great
If you as a player need to commune with Daedra, it allows for the player to choose to go down the 'darker' path, depending on how big the urge is to talk to them
Zinitrad - Today at 10:10 AM
one puts you in greater danger and can greatly piss some people off, but offers you a more direct, but also costly route, the other is safe, controlled, sanctioned, but very limited and ambiguous
ThomasRuz - Today at 10:11 AM
I think that strikes a good balance
'We discussed the Daedric princes and daedric summoning. It was proposed that the player would be able to summon lesser daedra for services, advice, bartering and small quests. There might be rules which the player needs to interact through in order to safely work with the daedra. There was also discussion about the Daedric Princes having a hidden disposition tied to their relationship with the player but this might be best done through crossproject.'
^ From our Discord TLDR
Zinitrad - Today at 10:13 AM
I could imagine something like
needing to find something, but having no idea where to look, and so you're instructed to seek out some form of Azuran oracular guidance
well, from there, you could go to the witch coven upon the spring in the woods, where a decrepit old woman tells you to bring her fingers with which she may point the way, and end up getting a damn specific bit of 'go here'
or you could visit the temple, pay some gold to the local ritualist, and commune with him in a dark little room lit by candles with various incantations marked on the floor, until you gain the vague knowledge that its in a place that looks sort of like this, located in this region, good luck

Re: Daedric Summonings in High Rock

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:40 am
by Miraclestone
We talked and planned the Daedric pocket realms in August

Asylum made some basic objects to work with, a sphere of vortex/spinning clouds which I used to do some testing for how the Daedric Pocket realm might work in game. I made an interior cell where I made an invisible box out of an edited version of 'EditorMarker_box_02' and then placed the sphere around the box so that the player appears to be suspended. Here are some of the screenshots and a gif.


Here I will lay out a basic plan for what the ideal pocket realm would look like. Ideally the object would not be a sphere but instead would be a long two ended funnel, where each end would appear to have much more depth than it actually does.


With a vortex/spinning animation, these ends would be the focal point of the animation and the pocket realm. At one end will stand the Daedric Prince, suspended like the player but out of reach behind an invisible wall. If done correctly, the effect shouldnt feel that much like an invisible wall and more like the player making no progress towards either end in this void (this effect is already somewhat true in my test). The Prince should have a presence over the Realm and should feel overpowering and commanding. The focal point where the vortex meets will be directly behind them. On there other side will be the end point of the vortex, maybe a design which implies it is where you came from and an escape root back to Tamriel.
The design of the vortex should Ideally be star based, a dark background texture with energy and stars flowing over it in a partern that DOES NOT cause motionsickness but rather memorizes and fills you with a sense of other worldliness. Here is a gif of TESII's design for the summoning effect which can act as a main inspiration for the design. ... _Quest.gif

Mechanically this zone should be very simple. Either it can be copied over 16 times or a single realm can act as the meeting place for all the Daedra since through scripts. The first option may be less of a headache and may leave room to make small changes to the design and sound of each pocket realm to customize it for each of the Princes.

When a player successfully summons a Prince, they are automatically transported to the cell. After a short pause so the player can center themselves and awe at the situation (4 seconds?), the Daedra will initiate a dialogue box. If HR were to have voiced lines, this would be the time in my opinion but that is a discussion for another time and is largely optional extra fluff. The dialogue will be discussed in each of the quest posts in the Daedra quest thread but in general each will discuss the situation and ask whether you want to take their quest. Answering no for many Princes will cause them to summon in servants to attack you, so the realm needs to be large enough and built for a combat between the player and multiple minions. When or why the combat occurs for each individual Daedra can be up to the quest dev but in general the idea is the Pocket Realm should be able to support this action. Once the player either accepts the offer or finishes off the goons, they will be teleported back out of the Pocket Realm (if the first teleport is able to log where the player was and then send them back, super, otherwise having it teleport you back to some particular spot isn't a big deal).

I linked the esp I made for testing below as well as the .nif. Place the .nif directly into the /Data Files/Meshes so that the custom object can find it.