Discord TL;DR

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Discord TL;DR

Post by Drakevarg » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:01 am

Just a place to dump summaries of discussions on Discord, so that they aren't lost in the rush. To start with, overview of a lengthy discussion from earlier today/yesterday which lacked lead devs to weigh in on:

Three Breton subcultures - Galenish (Elven-Influenced, Magic-Focused), Norvulki (Imperial-Influenced, Stealth-Focused), and Koeglin (Nord-Influenced, Combat-Focused). As all are still Breton, obviously they all make use of magic, but each have their leanings. Names are WIP, but Galenish is from the PE1.

Norvulki are Imperial-influenced despite being mostly along the Hammerfell border because it's where the Alessian Doctorines caught on in the First Era.

Koeglin are combat-leaning because they're mostly coastal (lots of physicality to sailing) and because many of their enemies (Nords, Orcs) are magic-resistant.

The combat/magic/stealth divide, while perhaps a bit arbitrary, gives the cutural distinction a bit of metatextual weight through the game mechanics that keeps them memorable.

High Rock has many, many Knightly Orders, and it'd be more than a little impractical to make all of them joinable. By reducing joinable ones to 6-12 with an even divide among subcultures/playstyles, you emphasize the variety while keeping content managable.

This is easy enough to justify because most small-town knightly orders have a lot of family history together and are basically private clubs, unwelcoming to outsiders. Larger orders from bigger cities are a bit more welcoming to new blood.

Possible Joinable Orders:
The Knights of the Dragon
The Knights of the Rose
The Order of the Heart
The Knights of the Storm
The Order of the Keep
The Witch Knights of Jehanna

Witch-Knights should be endemic to Breton culture as, aside from just being a cool phrase, its a distinct idea that gives the province something emblematic if its themes. They should be the "mid-point of wierdness," something too strange for the bigger, more modern cities, but not quite the true depths of eldritch strangeness of, say, the Reachmen. Common enough in smaller knightly orders of the back country where the old ways of doing things are more embraced. The Witch-Knights of Jehanna being the only large order bold enough to refer to themselves as such openly in 'polite society,' probably at least in part to sound scary to outsiders.

"Just the phrase "witch knight" conjures imagery simultaneously dignified and wild. And not in an elfy way. More in a kind of intimidating way, like a castle in some spooky woods."

"Actually, the more I think about it, the more High Rock feels in my head like the way Lovecraft saw New England. Everything is old and historied and you feel like there's something just beneath the surface that leaves a permanent feeling of unease."
"That's a GREAT way of handling High Rock."

Breton culture is highly occult, so like Cyrodiil it's likely a highly varied hodgepodge of cults and covens including Aedric, Daedric, and odder things like the Cult of the Worm, without too much focus on any one following, except perhaps the popularity of Magnus.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Ted » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:56 pm

My Betony island plan. Small island, half of land fall into sea during warp of the west. Due to erosion, coast for a long time slowely falls into sea, but during warp there was really huge seastorm that broke a lot land with two fishman villages.
Currently what remain is under control of Daggerfall kingdom. There some old sentinel fort ruins, old direnni ruins on north. In direnni ruins player may find map that show that long ago betony was much bigger and had connection with mainland.
Main and now only town is Whitefort - new breton stronghold, some breton houses around. There also docks and lighthouse. Daggerfall has agreement with empire that island may serve as regular port for imperial ships and imperial navi ships and boats can stay here for free. There also low taxes so trade ships often visit this island for barter.


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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Miraclestone » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:13 am

This will be a brief summary of the discord conversations in the HR section from roughly 6/12/17 - 6/16/17 EST
There was a conversation focused on the horsemen of the Bjoulsae greater region and their origins, culture and tents. There were many compared cultures referenced including the Cossacks, Scythians and Celtic horsemen of Gaul. It was also a popular concept that these horsemen are of very pure Nedic decent, out of reach of the Direnni during their reign in the inlands of Hammerfell and then pushed into High Rock by the invading Ra Gada. Wagon-Tents were discussed, inspired by the Scythian, but this concept was somewhat reject by Roerich, quote: "I think a camp made of wagon tents would look terrible tbh. Would remind you more of gypsies than celts. I cant see it working from an exterior designer POV"

A small detour for the discussion of the High Rock pantheon was taken, where I proposed the main temple locations of the Aedric pantheon in the major cities. This was fixed to include the other Breton Pantheon gods as well as the Orsimer Pantheon. The locations can be found and discussed under: 'HR_High_Rock_Discussion/Temple_Orders'.

This sparked a discussion about the Orsimer, their pantheon and their relation with the Direnni. The main question was if the Orsimer would be allowed on Baelfiera in order to worship the shine of Trinimac there. I thought it would be best if there was an element of unwelcomeness or even exclusion towards the Orsimer by the Mer population there do to the idea of Altmer purity but as a whole most people on the discord seemed to think the DIrenni would see this as an opportunity. There was also a debate one whether the Orsimer in Orsimium would be allowed to worship outside of the NEW Orsimer pantheon. Many people seemed to think it would be ok for Orsimer to worship the Nine Divines and to include other gods in the Orsimer Pantheon other than Trinimac/Orc heroes but ThomasRuz referred to the 'Orcish_Pantheon_V3.docx' as the WIP concept for Orsimer beliefs. Many people seem to think the Gortwog would have no concern for these ways, however, and in his quest to Imperialize the Orcs and push for Trinimac worship. This conversation probably needs to be properly resolved when further discussing the Orc's pantheon in more detail.

There was a short conversation about the Direnni Tower and what is in it. The consensus seems to be that the LARGE majority of the public areas of the Tower are in a exterior shell around the original tower which is its core. The throne room would be part of the original tower. There was mention of whether or not the tower should house the dead and this should be discussed further.


Nothing of significance happened on this day on the HR channel of Discord.


Most of Tuesday's conversation was pretty laid back and not very focused until the conversation about city sizes came up. I recommended Wayrest be larger and sited Anvil's size as an indication of 4 cells being too small (in reference to the current ThomasRuz map at the time [see 'HR_High_Rock_Discussion/Map_Discussion']) The consensus, however, was that realistically a large city could be a bad thing for the province and there was very little area to work with and a small city made to FEEL big would be just as effective. ThomasRuz made his newest (as of now) map's Wayrest 9 cells to indicate that it was a larger city than most in High Rock even if it will end up smaller than that after city planning is done.

There was talk of Gen Tem village, a cut village from TES:II that was tied to alot of Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood members. Most members in the discussion seemed to like the idea of adding the village and there were many ideas about where it would be or how it would work. To prominent ones was the idea of the village not appearing to the player unless they reached certain early milestones in the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood questlines (probably being introduced to the village's existence or being challenged to find it). The other popular idea was that the village would be underground along a river. Either way, the concept of a place to higher free lance or member assassins and thieves was receptive. R-Zero quote: "In the village, you can often spy masked nobles with their bodyguards".

Also R-Zero commented on adding the shadowkey settlements to the Bjoulsae/Dragonfields regions.

There was a small discussion about Ykalon being refereed to as 'burned down' during the Warp. This would reduce the amount of towns in that area while also adding a cool area for players to explore. Ykalon would be reclaimed by the swamp, full of spriggans and the undead remains of the order of the cup.

There was a discussion about the 6 full length questline Knight Orders I proposed under 'HR_High_Rock_Discussion/Knight_Orders'. Everyone seemed to like the concepts and there wasn't alot added to them during the discussion. ThomasRuz questioned whether the Order of the Heart should wear heavy armor if they were in crypts alot and it was decided that the heavy armor was more of a traditional hold over from back when the order didnt actually have to deal with shadow magic, when in the crypts many members wore much lighter equipment. Concept art and armor types were added to the original forum post through edits.

Mercenaries were touched upon while discussing the knights, favorites including Landskecht-esc Bjoulsae mercenaries as well as Genoese-esc Crossbowmen in Ravennia. Mercenary talk also led to a talk about the cut factions of the Mercenary Guild and Scenarist's Guild in TES:II. Both have decent lore for them and alot of potential. The Scenarist's Guild is located in the Dragontail mountains which would not be in HR427's territory but the idea of a questline involving the two rivals which never came to be in TES:II was popular. It should be noted the Mercanary Guild is said to have great influence over the Mage's guild in TES:II and is likely being fronted by an unknown force.

There was a conversation between just ThomasRuz and myself on Daedric Summonings in High Rock. In TES:II, there was only 1 day out of the year that you can summon a specific Daedra and only with the help of the Mage's Guild or a Witch Coven. We thought it would be a good idea to return to this idea but expand on how many ways you can achieve a summoning. I'll be making a forum post on that soon.

Roerich askes where King Dead Wolf-Deer will be placed in High Rock and ThomasRuz recommended Malekna Forest and if not there than maybe Gedalan.


There was a brief discussion on the locations of shadowkey. R-Zero added some of them to his map and decided to move them alittle more east toward Skyrim.

There was a decent conversation about the High Rock names that were inherited from TES:I and TES:II. Most of these names are not very creative (made through a basic random name generator) and are some what unappealing two part names (examples : Norvulk Hills, Dulain Falls, Raven Spring). It was put forward that these names should either be translated into Breton (see Stone Forest to Balmora for example of it in Morrowind) or it should be reduced to a one word name. This conversation did not have a resolution and should be explored again.

It was discussed that the colors of Haefingar and Jehanna should contrast eachother for a nice visual way of showing the conflict. The current concept of the Haefingar colors are harsh pure dark red, blue and purple with a wolf as the emblem. Colors that would contrast this well and fit our image of Jehanna would be muted earth tones with a deer emblem.

There was an idea about the Quill circus moving from city to city on a script but it was considered far to much work and much to clunky to be feasibly executed. We would see need to decide what city they are located in.

We had a brief conversation about Anticlere and Flyte. It was reestablished in the Discord after some confusion that WAYREST as in control of the city and not DAGGERFALL. Anticlere is one of the only cities from TES:II that is said to have a King so it is pretty clear that it was a kingdom before. The city was ruled by Lord Auberon Flyte during TES:II and it is likely he is dead from old age by TES:III. There was a discussion about Lady Flyte and Daggerfall possibly trying to front her claim to the throne to stick it to Wayrest but nothing concrete.

Orsinium was talked about for a short time. The regions of Dragontail Mountains and Mournoth are to be confirmed as Orsinium territory. I made a comment about the fact that the Orsinium territory was not connected and maybe that's the reason they cant get a Provence status but this was rebuked as undermining the attitude of the racism towards orcs. This discussion went into Friday and morphed into a discussion about the city of Orsinium itself and orc architecture.


There was a discussion about the two different map versions the project is currently working off of, R-Zero's and ThomasRuz's. Though the consensus was that the project would eventually make a hybrid map of the two in the future, details about the current layouts was debated. Deciding the density of the settlements was discussed, using the wild country backwater of Vvardenfell as an example of settlements which were very close together but felt far apart. There as a lot of discussion on settlement placements and priorities, including moving Wayrest up river to make room on the west coast of the Illiac for important land marks and also the fact that settlements in the Skeffington woods were probably the most damaged in the warp. See the 'map discussions' part of the High Rock forum for the different versions and how they have physically changed. Grimtry Garden/Gothway Garden was mentioned as a possible village for Daggerfall lands because of a reference in a book as well as its importance in the TES:II as the most come 'first town'.

There was a short discussion on the discord about the fishermen of HR vs the fishermen of the Niben. It was decided that the HR fishers favored multi-man larger boats vs Niben with its small single man boats. Up at Northpoint and Farrun, Scandinavian influences would be a little bit prevalent and the hooker/whaling industry would be booming.

There was a discussion of non-settlement locations of importance from most important to least. Though the discussion was derailed, some of the locations were discussed and put down. They include:
Ada-Mantia, Crypt of Hearts, Castle Shedungent, Castle Lugwych, Castle Necromonghan, "Kintyra's Ruins", Woodborne Hall, Mines of Khuras, The Masoleum of Darkivaron, Privateer's Hold, The Ruins of Old Orsinium, Castle Wightmoor.

There was a brief discussion on the ruins of Orsinium and where they should be located. It was decided that Nova Orsinium would be really close and possible built on some of the old ruins but there would be some physical evidence of the original. Though the surface elements were completely destroyed, there could possibly be deep tunnels and rooms safe from the siege which could be accessed through caves.

Roerich came up with a mock up of the city of Jehanna, using current PT assets that somewhat resembled the city. http://imgur.com/a/HI6vR There was a discussion about the Direnni ruins of the castle and it was decided IDEALLY there might be a Breton-esc variation of the Direnni buildings for Evermore. Thatched roof buildings would make up the rest of the city. http://imgur.com/a/1iMwL
There was also mention of the idea of the gladitorial team of Jehanna back in TES:I concepts, “the Iceblades” could be referenced towards as either a bandit/raider group or a Nord house in Jehanna.

This is when ThomasRuz made a new discord channel about maps and the conversation died.

There was a small discussion about Jehanna again which included concept art links for inspiration for the other cities too.
Jehanna :
Evermore :
Shornhelm :
Northpoint :

There was a long discussion about Jehanna's Witchknight questline. The concept up until this point was that the Witchknights would get back Jehanna through the help of Evermore and in the process become their vassal. The big hole in this concept, however, is that there is really nothing we could think of that we could give Thian to justify him giving up the city to Evermore. Thus, the concept was scrapped and the idea moved to the questline being about reuniting and strengthening the order for preparation against Haefingar. There were a lot of crazy concepts put out and two of the discord's favorite included involving King Dead Wolfdeer in some way (perhaps as a wealth of old magic information) and renaming the Gehenoth from TES Travels: Dawnstar to the Jehenoth and connecting it to the Witchknights. How exactly they made a Jehenoth is unclear at this concept time, whether it be through a somewhat beta Wild Hunt or something else. The connections seem solid at this time (King Dead WolfDeer, Witchknights, Y'ffre, Jehenoth all seem to click). R-Zero summed up the idenity of the Witchknights with this quote: "how far are you willing to go to get your homeland back".

There was a very short discussion on the prospect of a main quest in HR and it was decided that there were no plans to make one any time soon. The idea of an over arching narrative formed through multiple court plays and events sounded more in the spirit of the region.

There was a short discussion about Northpoint and the prospect of glowing rocks along the shore. Although this idea did not seem very popular, the idea of Witchstorms was. As of now, however, custom weather is close to impossible in the vanilla engine and would need to be implemented in a future version of OpenMW.
Last edited by Miraclestone on Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:29 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Iskuss1418 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:15 pm

There was discussion about Orsinium.
We said that Nova Orsinium would be a metal fortress built into the side of the tallest cliffs. We said that it would overlook the ruins of old Orsinium which would be in the narrow valley below. The fortress would be like a Petra of metal in the mountains, and it would have networks of tunnels inside of it. The metal of the fortress would have zig zag patterns and the visages of orcs on it. There would be slight Aldmer, Chimer, Nord, and Breton influences, but mostly it would be the Orcs own style. There would also be a great mine underneath the city with an abundance of metals.

There was a discussion over Haefingar's rule on Jehanna and what the best way of handling the situation was. Roerich put out the idea that the city would have fields inside the walls and would be mostly made of bland earth tones. This idea was expanded upon with the idea of the contrast between the city colors of the two forces, having the mute lighter earth tones of Jehanna vs the harsh dark pure colors of red, purple and blue Haefingar might have. There was a small discussion about the Witch-Knight's questline and a possible conclusion. It was conceived that the questline will end with Evermore using diplomatic means to free Jehanna but as a vassal to them. This will leave the player with a bitter sweet realization that the fall of Jehanna was inevitable

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Drakevarg » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:50 am

Saturday, 6/17/17
Discussion today was mostly about Dawnstar, relating to its relationship with Jehenna through the Gehenoth/Jehennoth. Some speculation as to when precisely the game Dawnstar took place, theories ranging from after the events of Morrowind to some time during the First Era under the Reman Dynasty. Ultimate conclusion was to leave it vague, hinting that the Jehennoth created by the Witch-Knights in their storyline isn't necessarily the first of its kind.

Discussion drifted over to the Ice Tribes and their identity. After passing theories relating them to Rieklings and a discussion as to the origins of the various beastmen of Tamriel, it was ultimately decided that the Ice Tribes would be in fact human - specifically an ancient, degenerate offshoot of Bretons living in glaciers. They are capable of working alongside creatures such as trolls and the Jehennoth, and deliberately present themselves as folkloric boogeymen (such as Falmer) to frighten their enemies, painting themselves in (possibly alchemically treated) woad to further sell the mystique.

King Dead Wolf-Deer was briefly discussed, and it was agreed that as a Wild Hunt mer-monster and one of the oldest beings on Tamriel, he would likely have demigod-tier power on par with the Tribunal.

Artifacts for the knightly orders were discussed, such as the Totem of the Witch-King for Jehenna (with lesser totems carried by all Witch-Knights, possibly growing in power with rank), court masks for the Knights of the Rose (plus the flaming sword Thorn) and a magical furnace that restores/fortifies magicka for the Storm Knights.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Miraclestone » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:20 pm


There was continued discussion about the Ice Tribe, Dawnstar and the 'Jehenoth'. It was brought up the the Governer of Dawnstar had an Imperial sounding name, Cyril Vinticae, which does not support the idea of the Governer being a title appointed by Thian of Haefingar. This just throw more confusion into the whole timeline of the events of Dawnstar. It was decided that the Jehenoth of Dawnstar wasn't the first and wouldnt be the last.

We further discussed the Ice Tribes to try and tie them to Jehanna in some way. The Ice Tribes would have some crazy wild magic and the secrets to creating a Jehenoth. There were plenty of ideas of their origins, straight up bretons from Jehanna, degenerate humans who had once lived near Jehanna, Rieklings, Atmora natives and Falmer. The ideas of lowering their oxygen intake to true blue or cold resistant blue woad paint came up. There wasn't a very good conclusion to this conversation and would need to be continued later.

There was a conversation about King Dead Wolf-Deer and the Witch Knights. It wasn't clear what KDWD's role would be for the WKs, whether he would be a voice of prophetical wisdom or a dead end due to his violent aggressive disposition. I for one would maybe include the idea of needing to calm KDWD as part of the quest. There was also a bit on the WK's ending again, debating whether there should a less extremist ending for the PC to choose. It was decided that the PC would be allowed to disband the knights at this, there weakest point, to avoid them achieving their dark and despite plans. ThomasRuz also commented that it would be a fun idea to reinitialize the Dark Brotherhood script to spawn Witchknights whenever you try to sleep if you disband them.

The discussion on the Ice Tribes was revisited again, involving lead devs Roerich and Infragis. There was an effort from ShotN to pass the Ice Tribes off as generic snow enemies and/or Rieklings. They would have gotten there from primitive seafaring. Roerich also wanted to make it clear the Ice Tribes dont really work well in concept from what we know about the Dawnstar region in ShotN. The Jehenoth doesn't need to be very connected with what he called “generic rpg monsters from a mobile game'. There was also the idea that there could be a human model rigged up to a goblin animation skeleton to get an interesting result.

Roerich wanted to discussion the Druadach range in the provinces mods. The Reach should be a land of rolling hills and mesas, flat and fertile enough for good farming. The range should be little and simply just higher lands than the valley areas of the east and west Reach. The article on UESP should not be followed for the Druadachs.

Infragis wanted to touch on the Imperial presence in other provinces and wanting to see more direct control (Governors and Legion Forts) like in Morrowind. Though the Human lands are likely to be much less of a concern for the Empire in maintenance, recent events in the third era would support the idea of there being Imperial officials trying to secure power in HR and Skyrim. It was also stated that Dawnstar was a Remen dynasty stronghold and should show that in some way.

There was the idea that the player could be given or made a town/city at the end of some possible large HR questlines. This idea does seem to appeal in concept since HR is all about ruling and political moves so being a lord with lands and peasants would be appropriate. There was discussion about the player becoming a regent as well. This is some uneasiness about the implementation of these.

There was a conversation about armor and what kinds would be found in HR. Drawing inspiration from the TES:II was difficult due to the lack of creativity in the designs and the low resolution. It was decided the guards would wear mostly mail with very little plate and have tabards of the city colors for sure. Having a generic base armor set with different helmets like what morrowind did with their guards would be a good way of distinguishing them from one another. Some armor ideas included kettle helmets for the Ravennia mercenaries and court robes for Wayrest mages. It was discussed whether the knight orders would have a connection with the guard and decided that they would not in most cities.

AGAIN the conversation returned to the Ice Tribe where it was proposed that they are a race called the Riek and the Riekling are just that race with island dwarfism. They would be described as icecavemen and the Nord would not have made a distinction between them and the Falmer.

We discussed the Daedric princes and daedric summoning. It was proposed that the player would be able to summon lesser daedra for services, advice, bartering and small quests. There might be rules which the player needs to interact through in order to safely work with the daedra. There was also discussion about the Daedric Princes having a hidden disposition tied to their relationship with the player but this might be best done through crossproject.


I made a mock up of Evermore city after being inspired by Roerich's attempt at Jehanna. The plan was to make a Colorful Direnni Inspired High Fantasy setting fit for wizards. The classic gravity defying wizard tower design would be implemented as the main tower of the Palace, where the order of the tower's HQ is. Thomas point to the Witcher 3's city of Blood and Wine as an example of the possible depth of colors. There was also a comment on how the cities shouldnt be very planned out and less organized. I also proposed that the look of the Aachen Imperial Cathedral would be a good look for the city of Camlorn.

There was discussion about where the project might start working. The split was between those who wanted to do something more distinctive somewhere in HR to grab the attention of users and those who wanted to start in the West Reach due to the large amount of assets already available for there. Either way the project wont be starting any time soon and there will be time to debate this further.

There was a discussion about how the idea of Lovecraft could fit in HR. HR is fairly high fantasy and doesn't mix well with many of the themes of Lovecraft. Elements of light Lovecraft can be used to help explore some of HR's darker and stranger elements, using his tone and style to elaborate on these wild parts of HR. “High Rock is a province with layers. You have the urban cities that try to be kosher and civil to gain favor with the Empire/eachother and then you have the rural areas where the weird traditions and rites come to light. THEN you go even deeper into the wilderness and start to understand the true nature of High Rock, a place of wild magics and dark secrets. Lovecraft has similar themes of a world right below the mundane one, just a few layers deeper."

There was discussion about the Direnni in High Rock. R-Zero was concerned that the “former direnni fortress” angle of our settlements those far could be quickly over played. The only city that the lore says was a Direnni settlement at one point for sure is Daggerfall and I proposed the vault of the castle would still be Direnni. The current Jehanna concept involves a palace made from Direnni ruins. Evermore will not be a former Direnni fortress but will be very Direnni inspired. It is important that this angle not be a pattern. The Direnni are said to be the most prevalent in the Western Reach and around the coasts of the Illiac Bay. The other parts of HR (save White Haven and the Crypt of Hearts) should have very little to no Direnni ruins to avoid the concept being over used.

There was yet again another Ice Tribe discussion continue the idea of the Ice Tribes being a root race for the Riekling called the Rieks. This idea was challenged with issues of the origins of the Ice Tribes and the importance of defining the Ice Tribes. The idea of Rieks was expanded to include the idea of “blue orcs”. Infragris reminded us that it is classic TES style to give many different contradictory ideas about the origins of things and to commit to one is not necessary.

There was a short discussion on the Direnni again and the differences between them and the Altmer. Though the Direnni never officially left the Altmer behind, they are very distinct culturally at this point even if they stayed relatively the same racially. The Direnni are opportunists who are very involved in the politics of humans where as many of the Altmer pretend humans dont exist. The Direnni are very adaptive and will use any situation to their advantage where as the Altmer of summerset isles are very conservative and culturally stubborn.

There was a short discussion about what kind of creatures should be present in HR dungeons. After confirming that Harpies were in HR dungeons in TES:II, it was proposed that it might be better just to have them have some nests in some of the higher altitudes. Giant spiders were discussed too, where they would either be black widow or tarantulas (or BOTH!). R-Zero came up with the idea that there could be molts of spiders all around their dungeons to try and make the player unsure which were real and which were just shells.

There was a discussion about the Underking's agents and the Talos Heresy. After a lot of discussion it was concluded that the a number of the agents after the events of TES:II will still be trying to continue their aint Imperial work and will be trying to provoke a religious movement in Alcaire based off of the Heresy. A successful movement would mean HR likely taring itself apart once again. The agents would be less organized and untouchable without the leadership of the Underking and the PC could possible be able to stop them but the idea of the heresy movement being inevitable should be clear. R-Zero wanted to include the idea of Marukhati influences being part of the Heresy. I wanted to include a dungeon near Bhoriane on that southern point wide peninsula called the “Tomb of Lost Kings” which would be the crypt of a dynasty of Witch-Kings and also hinting that it was the lair of the Underking during TES:II.

The conversation turned the to religious orders of HR. Though I had planned on a centralized order, it seemed like a more popular idea to have separate autonomous temples for each god in the pantheon. This would lead to each have their own quest hub and story. There was talk about the idea of 'main' temples being uncharacteristic to how religions work and this was changed to 'biggest' temple to better convey the purpose of the temples. Y'ffre will only have one actual temple in Jehanna, the rest being woodland shrine across HR (mostly in Malekna Forest and the Western Reach). There was a proposed questline involving the temple of Kynareth trying to convert Y'ffre followers in the North-East to her during the weakened state the temple is in due to the Haefingar occupation of Jehanna. It has been decided that the religious knight orders will need be given quest affiliated faction treatment and will be merged with their corrosponding religious order to try and reduce the risk of spreading thin.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Miraclestone » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:51 pm


There was another brief discussion about the Ice Tribes with no real improvement on the ideas we already had.

There was an in depth discussion about the druids and earthbones. The idea is that druid magic would try to tap into the earthbones through rituals to try and achieve a desired result. As R-zero put it "occult science". Infragris has some issues with the idea, wanting to avoid the idea that the earthbones are anima in anyway and to focus on the idea that they are the laws of nature/nirn. The idea that Druid magic is not really tangible and is more abstract/unclear seemed to be a popular opinion. This discussion should be expanded on further when we talk about religions in more depth.

There was a discussion about the Crypt of Hearts, including the following concept art:
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/im ... lland1.jpg

Some of the more popular ideas were 'valley of kings from egypt' (centuries of tombs from different dynasties and cultures all in the same place) and 'necrom of the west' (much like necrom in Morrowind, this would be a place of mourning and respect. Generations of the most important people in HR are buried here). One of the difficulties in the current concept is the style mixing or very inventive custom set required to make it.


Melchior Dahrk linked three separate 'r/teslore' posts that had to do with High Rock lore. Non are canon but there could be useful inspiration found in the ideas for HR religions:

Valen and Galen association:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/commen ... n/cu2jd0x/
Ykaloni pantheon:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/commen ... _pantheon/
Bjoulsae pantheon:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/commen ... es/chjlq5o

There will need to be a clear definition of which religious direction HR427 wants to go in and what elements will be present in
Last edited by Miraclestone on Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Iskuss1418 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:43 pm

There was a lengthy discussion about centaurs and how they should be portrayed. There was agreement that there should be several different types of centaurs spread across the provinces based on where their homeland was. A centaur from Hammerfell might have the body of a zebra, while one from Valenwood might have the body of a stag.

We said that centaurs should have a connection to the Earthbones, which are the laws of nature, and that this would determine their type, which would still be based on their homeland. We said that it would be important not to personify the Earthbones, and to leave their nature mysterious and ambiguous.

We said that the centaurs should be more beast-like than human and should be capable warriors. They would not want to fight in any war of men or elves, and wouldn't care about petty politics. They would only fight for good reasons, like the defense of their homelands.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Miraclestone » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:03 am


There was a conversation about the Crypt of hearts and its possible architecture. The idea if it would be a 'valley of kings' like area with crypts from different eras and cultures. Whether this means a new tile set that combines elements of Nede, Breton, Nord and Direnni OR just using the sets already made for those three isn't clear yet. A skull is a popular concept for the crypt which is displayed above the door in the Arena art for it.
Here is concept art drawn by members of 427 that day for the crypt:
There were some new ideas for the crypt, including a castle for the Order of the Heart above the crypt as well as the crypt being a well that sinks into the earth. Infragris recommended the skull be stylized and not realistic in design.

Halbe had an idea about a cult which worshiped dragons. They would get tattooed with scales, use fire magic and use gliders to fly around. He described it as dragon worship with celtic and eldritch elements mixed in.

There was an overview on some of the 'monster' races of HR. The Dragonlings would not be dragons and would instead be either pseudodragon homunculi created by the Direnni in an attempt at making a real dragon or a metaphysical world theme which perpetuates the form of dragons. Either way it was decided they would not speak Dragonkin despite that being the case in TES:II

Spriggan, Nymphs and Lamia were discussed too. It was decided that Spriggan would stay the same and that Nymphs would become water spirits. Lamia would be sea sirens.

The Numidium was discussed and what would have become of it. The idea of multiple Numidum 'corpses' around the Illiac was an appealing proposal, highlighting the importance of the Warp and what occurred with the multiple realities.

There was talk about Giants and how they operate. Giants outside of TES:V lore are said to have armor and possibly strongholds. They would be fairly intelligent for a 'savage' race. They would be fairly unimaginative when it comes to religion/spirituality, taking the forces of nature and spirits around them literally and referring to them bluntly. The Giants that are aware of the 'civilized' gods would also refer to them in a child like understanding "Kyne is Sky, Magne is Sun, Yeffer is forest"

We discuessed the difference between the Reachmen and the Backwater Bretons of HR. Here is the summary I wrote in the discord "K so we got it down? Backwater bretons live in better houses made from stonework and lighter thatching. They were muted faded colored tunics and rags. They dont have tattoos and use normal Breton (non-reachmen) faces. They are shyer about their traditions and beliefs despite also being entrenched in witchcraft/druid (non-othordox) practices. They are more welcoming of strangers though are usually very fearful (unlike the reachmen who are aggressive and usually ask the PC to leave)."

We reaffirmed the idea of witchcraft and druidism being impolite in conversations and public but very wide spread. Shrines will be located in dark corners and alleys and no one will talk about them. There will be cultural subtleties that make the difference between "public traditional witchcraft, private traditional witchcraft, private creepy witchcraft, taboo secret witchcraft and witchcraft the Bretons dont even want to acknowledge exist.

We talked about the idea of learning languages of other 'savage' races. Many people felt this would be unimmersive and others felt it would be sloppy. It was decided this was a topic best left to the far off quest design phase of the project

We briefly talked about Mannimarco and the cult of worms. It was decided that there would be two different versions of the necromancer "The King of Worms" and "The God of Worms". The king would be left on Nirn and probably would abandon the cult of worms to find a different path to god hood. The Cult would probably be splintered into minor cults, many worshiping the God of Worms while other maybe even are in contact with the Slouds. It was even conceived that they may want to work with Gortwog in protecting his new kingdom.

The Lariats and Dynasties of HR were discussed. Wayrest was decided to be ruled by Septims while Shornhelm would have Lariats. After much debate, I posted this summary on the discord of the history of the Lariats and Septims of HR "Uriel was the half brother of Pelagius Septim III's son who was the last of the main line for septims. Despite being a bastard and a Lariat, he was given Wayrest after being adopted by the Septims (becoming a legal Septim). He then inherited the Imperial Throne when his half brother died without an heir. He lost his claim to Wayrest which was given to other Septims (maybe by him). He had a son, Andorak, only had claim to the Imperial Throne and when his father died he was voted out by the Counsel who wanted a closer related heir by blood. He was left with nothing and felt cheated, starting a succession war. After a long war, the Imperial gave him Shornhelm as consolation in peace."

Spiders were discussed. R-Zero worried about having a dungeon type with only a spider as an enemy would be boring. The group conceived of many Dark Souls inspired enemies to help diversify the spiders. These includes web mummies, humanoid spider shaped corpses where are primarily made of spiders which dissipate when they are killed (including a lame version that SPAWNS large spider mobs as enemies when it dies). The lanky webspinning widow grouping spiders will be in HR and the furry GIANT bulky nonweb/nongroup spiders will be in Hammerfell.
Last edited by Miraclestone on Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Miraclestone » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:11 am


There was a discussion about the architecture of High Rock, especially Daggerfall. Zadroter and I discussed how Daggerfall might look like; I favored a darker/grimmer take on Daggerfall while he favored a Brighter more affluent version. Here are some pictures posted on the discord.

Dark Grimmer Daggerfall :
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 2e04b6.jpg
http://www.medievalswansea.ac.uk/static ... .05.14.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 15b164.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 117a4c.jpg

Brighter Affluent Daggerfall :
http://www.darkcreations.org/static/upl ... 8ccfea.png

R-Zero commented that Farrun should be a rainy bleak place, shornhelm could be a cold grim stone heavy city, Wayrest might look like this:

We had another conversation about the culture groups of HR. The suggestion was that the meta-Breton culture needed to be split up to help diversify the province and make it easier to explore different themes. R-Zero put in the concept of 3 cultures. The Normen would be the celtic heavy, isolationist, claymore wielding, xenophobic culture which is located in the Worthgarians and to the North of them. The Bretonnians would be the urbanized, cosmopolitan, shy about traditions and roots and are mostly settled to the West of the Worthgarians. The Easterners are the people who are very mobile, often remote but very trade heavy who live to the East of the Worthgarians. Here is the most up to date map of his culture concept.

We next covered a small point about the in game book http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Rear_Guard and about when in the timeline this occurred. The book cites a law written on 3E 246 so it has to be after that point. R-Zero wanted to know if it would be ok for the book's story to happen during the Bend'r Mahk? Though it was not conclusive whether that would be the case, the town of Cascabel may be added to the HR map somewhere near Farrun.

We had a short conversation about the alliance/political landscape of HR as of TES:III. The popular opinion was that there were only 5 Breton Kingdoms left in power after the Warp from citing http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Etiquette_With_Rulers, excluding Shornhelm which may have been referenced as sovereign in previous TLDR. This would leave the United Kingdoms of Daggerfall and Camlorn, the Alliance of Wayrest and Orsinium, the Kingdom of Evermore and its Vassel Farrun, Haafingar's occupation of Jehanna and finally Northpoint. It was suggested that Shornhelm be included within Northpoint's clay in some way.

The Direnni were discussed, mostly surrounding their tower and Mistress Medora Direnni from TES:II. It is assumed that Medora Direnni, the master sorceress of Direnni Tower, is the leader of the modern Direnni. R-Zero suggested the title Mistress Castellan Medora Direnni because it sounded cool. It was established that Medora was banished from Daggerfall during the events of TES:II so it is suggested the ties between the Direnni and Daggerfall have faded. The Direnni Tower was talked about, including suggestions for a 100 floor tower and references to the Jills (female Dragons) in the basement of the tower. It was reaffirmed that the suggestion that the Direnni Tower was built physically around Ada-Mantia as the structure's core. Ada-Mantia would be off limits save the throne room and the Direnni Tower would largely not be. Drakevarg suggested that the Direnni tower could look like Burj Khalifa in Dubai:
http://www.burjkhalifa.ae/en/Images/Bur ... -85702.jpg
Last edited by Miraclestone on Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Discord TL;DR

Post by Miraclestone » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:26 pm

There was a lengthy discussion on dungeon types for HR. After discussing the dungeon types of TES:II, which mostly revolve around the occupants of the dungeon rather than the tileset like in TES:III, multiple dungeon sets were conceived. The suggestion at the time of this conversation was to create an interior and exterior set for 'Breton crypt, Hedge Wizard Tower, Breton Castle with ruin assets as well as cultural variants, Coven, Extending Direnni Ruins, Caves with region variants' as well was exterior only assets for 'Harpy Nests, Giant Strongholds, Druid Sites'. The dungeon occupants from TES:II were suggested for these different dungeon types.
  • Crypt : Vampires, Undead, Spiders, Cults, Laboratory
    Wizard Tower : Vampires, Rouge Wizards, Undead, Daedra, Dragonling, Laboratory
    Desecrated Temple : Vampires, Witches, Cults, Undead
    Castle : Barbarians, Vampires, Witches, Cults, Bandits, Rouge Orcs, Dragonlings, Spiders, Laboratory
    Coven : Vampires, Witches, Cults, Daedra
    Direnni Ruins : Vampires, Dragonlings, Cults, Undead
    Caves : Vampires, Giants, Barbarians, Bandits, Rouge Orcs, Cults, Spiders
    Exteriors : Barbarians, Harpys, Bandits, Giant, Rouge Orcs, Cults, Spiders
Using the extremely generalized dungeon tiers of MW as a model, here is a suggested tier list of the dungeon types for HR:
Tier 1 - Tier 2 - Tier 3 - Tier 4 - Tier 5
_________Desecrated _____Coven

There was a discussion on the Giant strongholds. As before there was a consensus that Palisades were a good way to go but some also wanted there to be stonework involved. Drakevarg linked this picture as a possible look http://www.viewzone.com/bigpicture/bp121611T.gif but some found it too nordic. Making the rocks less smooth and square was suggested to help distinguish them from the nord style along with including bones. It couldn't be decided what bones could be used, however, since some felt that Mammoths and Whales should not be common in HR. There was a suggestion that the Mammoths could be found in a flat valley in the Worthgarians which is under the Giant's controls.

Wizard towers were discussed further, comparing them to Velothi towers and how they may look. The current concept includes using these towers for rouge wizards (hostile and nonhostile) as well as the Evermore city faction and knights of the Tower (who will use large banners on the exterior of their towers to distinguish them). Here are some concept arts linked into the channel during the discussion:
http://orig07.deviantart.net/515d/f/201 ... 491p1a.jpg
https://1d20.files.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... tower1.jpg
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/eld ... _Spire.png
http://www.zaboobadidoo.com/wp-content/ ... G_5256.jpg
http://orig08.deviantart.net/1a8f/f/201 ... 4kbo44.jpg

We rediscussed the in game book the Rear Guard as well as the settlement Cascabel with the participation of Roerich for ShotN. Roerich confirmed that Cascabel already exists as a settlement for ShotN past the skyrim boarder and features many of the attributes described in the book (bosmer count, apple groves). It was debated whether the book should be taken 1-1 though because there are minor inconsistencies. The greater argument was whether or not books that are ambiguous whether they are fictional or not should be used as 100% lore points. This discussion may need to be revisited due to a lack of resolution.

Thomas and R-Zero discussed the characters of TES:II/High Rock. Most of this discussion was lore searching and confirmation, finding descriptions for the characters and if they had any character development after TES:II. It was suggested that Nulfaga should be revisited whether through the Order of the Heart or maybe Daggerfall. Mynisera was confirmed to be possibly still alive after false information as sourced from UESP. She would be 74 years old in HR427. It was suggested that ambassadors from Baelfiera be present in most every court in HR.

Gwylin was discussed after concept art of other pocket realms were linked into the channel. Floating rocks were not a popular take on Gwylin. Some suggested not even making an exterior for it, having it be completely indoors interiors. It was discussed whether Daedra were involved in creating the pocket realm but this was also an unpopular suggestion. Infragris described it as “It has folded in on itself in such a way that its physical location is completely trivial. To ask "where is gwylim" is a nonsense question, like "where is blue". ”. R-Zero pointed towards http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Liminal_Bridges and http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Itermerel%27s_Notes as possible examples of magical things that can be done with Gwylin.


There was another very long discussion on the Centaurs. Alot of this was review of the previous discussion for those who were not present. A brief discussion on the Old Ways was included which went over what they were and how it was connected to the Centaur. It was suggested that the old ways is a form of elder mysticism which is used to manipulate the earthbones. Where the Psijics have to use meditation and highly trained mental control in order to use this type of mysticism safely, the Centaurs do this instinctually which makes them the “true followers of the old ways”. It was suggested that they don't see a difference between the living and the dead. It isn't exactly clear how this connects with the concept of them being tied with the earthbones and how they would view their ancestors. R-Zero expressed concern for the idea of their form being tied to their homeland, saying is is too close to the Khajiit cycle and pointing towards P:C's Minotaur as possible inspiration on how to do the Centaurs. R-Zero would later say that having the Centaurs be in a flux state of shapeshifting of form based on where would be another way of expressing the variant idea. On a side note it was suggested that the druids might be tapping into this same type of earthbone manipulation too but instead of using mental means they achieve this through rituals.

How much the centaurs would change based on their location was a big point in this discussion. What part the creature would be different was of concern for R-zero who said they feared a puzzle piece style centaur. Drakevarg expressed his interest into saying the variants be completely different based on their location, having little in common but their 4 legged lower body as well as a human upper body. R-zero wanted there to be a lot of similarities, only have small changes like fur cooler be present while horns, hooves, tails and most other things stayed the same from variant to variant. It was decided that this would need to be solved with a larger group than 3. There was a short discussion of what armor and technology they had. It was suggested that they had Neolithic tech level at best due to their portrayal in TES:II

The backstory of the centaurs was discussed and how it was relevant and should be handled. With the theories made on the 24rd of June still the most pervasive discussed, it was questioned how it would appear in game. R-zero worried it would be tacked on and distracting, robbing the player of the change to imagine the origins of the centaur. It was suggested that the be one of the ingame theories and that there would be multiple explanations ingame about the origins of the centaur. As I suggested, there could be a book written by an Imperial scholar and another one written by a Bosmer ranger who contradict each other, both of which would be different from the Centaur's own theories. The ambiguity of the nature of the origin is within TES's style so it should be encouraged with most HR427 created lore. Drakevarg wanted to make it clear though that the drastic variants should still be an example ingame that the centaur have a very unique situation which eludes to the original earthbone connections suggested.

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