Cyrodiil Creatures

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Moritius
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Moritius » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:04 am

Found the best concept-art of cockatrice.
Image
:lol:
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Saint_Jiub » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:40 am

Let's start over because this discussion is getting a little out of hand (no thanks to me I'm sure).

Colovia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palearcti ... _and_fauna

This should be the model for our Western ecology, IMO. Subarctic and temperate climates, low rainfall, generally sparse plantlife for the most part. Small omnivores and insectivores like the tantha are the most successful forms of animal life in most of the Highlands. Monotremes like the platypus and echidna would be a good visual base I would think, based on the design of the tantha- vanilla's giant rats would likely be native to this region as well. Small flightless birds, snakes, and large insects (scorpions) would also be common sights in these areas. Predators tend to be mid-sized and rangy, including hawkhounds, wolves and lynx (or a lynx-esque critter).

In more temperate regions like the West Weald and Great Forest where flora is more lush, you start to find herds of wild horses and deer, as well as larger apex predators like bears and this fella in the top left:

Image

The fauna of the Gold Coast depends on the sea for survival, so seabirds (how hard would it be to modify the seagull mesh and keep the same skeleton to make other species?), lamia, crustaceans, and something similar to a seal would not feel out of place.

After centuries of domestication, cows and donkeys only show up around areas of human activity. Minotaurs make camp at the highest altitudes (oftentimes squatting in Imperial ruins), coming down to hunt the Great Forest or raid Colovian settlements for food, weapons, (and brides, given the lack of female minotaurs?)

Does this sound agreeable, at least as a starting point? I feel that this gives us a baseline for designing new creatures within a consistent/logical ecology.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by vrolok » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:18 am

Does this sound agreeable, at least as a starting point? I feel that this gives us a baseline for designing new creatures within a consistent/logical ecology.
Yeah, the base premise is very solid, I am not going to argue. I think there could be additional creatures later on, like the ogres (as alternative to trolls from Niben) or whatnot, but what you said, Saint_Jiub, is pretty accurate. And I do like this approach, we do need to narrow it down to more general theme.

Specifics like ogres or hydras or whatever else could be left for later days, once basic work is done. When you feel that there is not enough variety or there is need for some specific creature in the quest, that's when we can decide on any new additions.

-----
And for new creatures I would propose a very simple system of deciding, hope everyone can agree to it.

Reasons for new creatures, in priority order:
1) Is it possible to create in game? (otherwise, no point of discussing)
2) Is it needed for biological or quest reasons? (why would we need it otherwise?)
3) Does it fit the world in terms of logic? (important, but some things can be a bit illogical)
4) Does it fit the world in terms of style? (style can be altered to better fit the world)
5) Is it fun to play with? (gameplay is still important, even if it's not the main thing in Morrowind)

I think this system is very logical and we can use it, instead of arguing. It would be much easier to talk about creatures if we had these criteria.
If you don't like it, then maybe alter it or create a different system. The system will help to ensure productive discussion IMO

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Infragris
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:06 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote:Does this sound agreeable, at least as a starting point? I feel that this gives us a baseline for designing new creatures within a consistent/logical ecology.
This is exactly what we needed: a solid, plausible base to start from, and one that can believable merge into a more subtropic climate to the east. One thing i would propose is move the inspiration for the southern regions closer to the Mediterranean steppe, forests and dry woodlands. The area is not tropical yet, but it should be warmer than the northern regions. We should also see to it that the theme doesn't interest with the Shotn's ice age ecology.


In fact, this proposal brings up an excellent point: it is difficult to decide on these creatures as long as we do not have a clear and concise idea of the regions they will populate. Therefore, I suggest we focus on that for a little while: I've started a new thread here to discuss the nature of the regions and environments. Discussion of themes and abstract premises, both local and metaphysical, can be done here.

It's very nice to see such enthusiasm for the design of Cyrodiil for a change, and I think a couple of interesting new concepts have come from this. At the same time, though, this thread is getting a little bit cluttered with things that are a little bit outside of the scope.

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Ted
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:31 pm

I'am not an expert, but i think Cyrodiil or Skyrim need wolverine (you know, Wolverine Hall etc.)

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by worsas » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:05 am

Ted wrote:I'am not an expert, but i think Cyrodiil or Skyrim need wolverine (you know, Wolverine Hall etc.)
Yes, in an ideal world, you would probably have everything that is referenced somewhere in text of even just names, to have the gameworld full and consistent. Maybe, one day...

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vrolok
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by vrolok » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:14 am

Well, some creatures can be present in the world, but not found by the player. If they are small and not too important gameplay wise, they can be just mentioned. Though I wouldn't mind having wolverines per say

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by TheDVI » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:44 am

Ted wrote:I'am not an expert, but i think Cyrodiil or Skyrim need wolverine (you know, Wolverine Hall etc.)
Wolverines are probably more of a Skyrim thing, since Cyrodill's climate is unsuitable for them.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:32 am


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Anumaril
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Anumaril » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:53 am

I agree with Infragris' proposal. Attack helicopters are a MUST for P:C.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Saint_Jiub » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:56 am

Regarding liches......

Image

Setting aside the concept art that I drew a while back for a moment, what do people think of using Barilzar as a base for our Nibenese liches? His name rings of First Era Cyrod (Barilzar vs. Belharza?), and his armor is kind of an interesting fusion of Roman and Japanese that doesn't really fit anywhere else on Tamriel. Barilzar could be a Dunmeri moniker as well and given his location that might be logical, but his appearance is juuuuuuust Imperial enough that it bears exploration, for me. Infragris, what are your thoughts? I know you have some designs in mind for Imperial necromancy.

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Infragris
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:22 am

I love the guy's design, but it still strikes be as essentially dunmerish - albeit from a very different era than today. I think some aspects of his look should be emulated to spice up our own concepts: the shreds of cloths, the almost-decayed armor, etc.

I don't think native Imperial necromancy should feature normal liches, or only sparsely at least. The pursuit of immortality no matter the cost is more of a Worm Cult thing: in fact, according to lore, Mannimarco invented the modern lichification process (see the Mages Guild discussion). Besides, the Imperials have their own avenues to immortality: the widespread Vampyrum Order, the Moth Eaters (who can probably fill the part of liches in most settings), and the inner circles of the Akaviri bloodlines (immortal snakeman blood).

Regarding Imperial necromancer enemies: I had some concepts, but I'm not too sure of their implementation. One idea was to mainly feature animal shambles: bonewalkers made of different animals (bird skulls, stuff like that). Imperial necromancers can only use the bodies of condemned criminals in their arts, so there's a lot of competition and scarcity - this would be expressed by them using other materials. Another idea was to have the undead wrapped in veils and cloaks, since the "civilized" Imperials consider it unnerving to have bones on display.

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R-Zero
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by R-Zero » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:45 am

Saint_Jiub wrote:Regarding liches......
Setting aside the concept art that I drew a while back for a moment, what do people think of using Barilzar as a base for our Nibenese liches? His name rings of First Era Cyrod (Barilzar vs. Belharza?)
...or Barenziah.
and his armor is kind of an interesting fusion of Roman and Japanese that doesn't really fit anywhere else on Tamriel
It's actually very similar to the Royal Guard armor, with couple unique details.
Infragris wrote:Another idea was to have the undead wrapped in veils and cloaks, since the "civilized" Imperials consider it unnerving to have bones on display.
I can get behind this.
There's this concept from the Beyond Skyrim's Morrowind forum:
Image
but seeing that Dunmer have absolutely no problems with displaying bones and corpses and so on, it can be better used for Cyrodiil.

I also threw together an Oblivion-inspired Lich model last September:
Image **Dead Link**

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Infragris
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:30 am

There's this concept from the Beyond Skyrim's Morrowind forum:
http://www.darkcreations.org/static/upl ... 65e39f.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but seeing that Dunmer have absolutely no problems with displaying bones and corpses and so on, it can be better used for Cyrodiil.
That is exactly what I mean! The use of incense and silk further enhances the Nibenese connection.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Saint_Jiub » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:44 pm

R-Zero wrote:
Saint_Jiub wrote:Regarding liches......
Setting aside the concept art that I drew a while back for a moment, what do people think of using Barilzar as a base for our Nibenese liches? His name rings of First Era Cyrod (Barilzar vs. Belharza?)
...or Barenziah.
and his armor is kind of an interesting fusion of Roman and Japanese that doesn't really fit anywhere else on Tamriel
It's actually very similar to the Royal Guard armor, with couple unique details.
Infragris wrote:Another idea was to have the undead wrapped in veils and cloaks, since the "civilized" Imperials consider it unnerving to have bones on display.
I can get behind this.
There's this concept from the Beyond Skyrim's Morrowind forum:
Image
but seeing that Dunmer have absolutely no problems with displaying bones and corpses and so on, it can be better used for Cyrodiil.

I also threw together an Oblivion-inspired Lich model last September:
Image **Dead Link**
The Royal Guard armor is almost certainly an Imperial-inspired, if not outright Imperial, design. Its closest visual analogue is the Legion armor from Daggerfall and Oblivion, and chainmail and steel plate is very out of place for a Dunmeri design.

I like the other ideas for liches that are being discussed here though. I might play around with a Battlemage armor inspired by Barilzar.

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R-Zero
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by R-Zero » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:00 pm

Was there any discussion on Unicorns? I know Oblivion only had one and its design doesn't really fit P:C design, but what if Kirin is taken as a base for it, instead of classical western unicorn?
Image

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:55 pm

I think it'd be interesting to explore the unicorn being some sort of physical incarnation of an aedric/daedric/other spiritual/metaphysical being. Like how in vanilla Morrowind there's the incarnations of (I think) Zenithar, Mara and Talos.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by R-Zero » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:38 pm

TerrifyingDaedricFoe wrote:I think it'd be interesting to explore the unicorn being some sort of physical incarnation of an aedric/daedric/other spiritual/metaphysical being. Like how in vanilla Morrowind there's the incarnations of (I think) Zenithar, Mara and Talos.
Nice idea! Don't know about an incarnation of some certain God or Prince - this must be closely tied to a quest, but I too see unicorns as more of spirits than a physical creature - in the same vein as dragons (or, as it was proposed, tigers). Some type of lesser Aedra?

Some lore on Unicorns: "Unicorns are brothers to the wind and travel as fast, even burdened, but not as fast as dragons fly <...> The unicorn would win easily in any single close combat. No mortal or even dragon can move quickly enough to land a blow and it cannot be burned or touched by any magic or elemental power. It's hooves are deadly and a single touch of its horn will kill any enemy, although the horn itself will burn away. The most powerful can regenerate it within moments, however." - King Edward
"The delicate, spiraled horn curves slightly before ending in a deadly, sharp point. You had always heard that unicorn horns were of purest alabaster ivory. This one seems to be more like silver." - Daggerfall
"...destruction of a unicorn strengthens the Dark." - Light And Dark
Unicorn Horn alchemical properties:
- Detect Enemy (Daggerfall)
- Fortify Health (Oblivion)

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:25 pm

Bit more lore from Oblivion:
Summoned by prey. The hare crouches before the fox's muzzle. Perhaps I shall task you, mortal. Set you to hunt for my amusement. In Harcane Grove is a quarry worthy of the chase. First named, last tamed, the unicorn runs wild there. Bring me this creature's horn, mortal. If you dare.
I don't really want to utilize the kirin, just because it's so immediately recognizable as a Chinese legend. That said, I don't really want to just go with a white horse with a horn stuck on either.

My thoughts on incorporating unicorns into our lore is that they should be spirits associated with Mara, the same way that Spriggans are with Kynareth. The way they fly off the handle in Oblivion when anyone around them draws a weapon reminds me of the description of the Maran Knights in Daggerfall:
The Maran Knights represent the military strength of Mara, who represents love and peace. She and Her Benevolence recognize that, as hypocritical as it sounds, military strength is often needed to beget this peace. They are a controversial knightly order. Some clerics within the Temple would prefer that the knights disband, but they are in the minority, and most citizens respect the knight's skill and loyalty.
Potential inspiration image?
Image

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:04 pm

If we were to have such a creature, I would prefer to call it a Monoceros or Monocerote, the classical roman name for a unicorn.

I still have my reservations regarding "magical" creatures, but I suppose there's no harm if there are lots of normal creatures to balance it out.

About creature lore: it's good to have a clear view of what the creature signifies and to which spirits it is bound, but in the interest of immersion and cultural specifics I would advice making them more subjective and less limiting. An example would be to not say that unicorns are Aedric spirits bound to Mara, but to say that the Maratic cults believe this to be so, and that other cults or folklore have their own view on them.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by R-Zero » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:15 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote:My thoughts on incorporating unicorns into our lore is that they should be spirits associated with Mara, the same way that Spriggans are with Kynareth. The way they fly off the handle in Oblivion when anyone around them draws a weapon reminds me of the description of the Maran Knights in Daggerfall
I can see Unicorns being associated with all or any of the three female goddesses.
Infragris wrote:If we were to have such a creature, I would prefer to call it a Monoceros or Monocerote, the classical roman name for a unicorn.
"Indrik" could work as a colovian name too.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:54 pm

Infragris wrote:If we were to have such a creature, I would prefer to call it a Monoceros or Monocerote, the classical roman name for a unicorn.

I still have my reservations regarding "magical" creatures, but I suppose there's no harm if there are lots of normal creatures to balance it out.

About creature lore: it's good to have a clear view of what the creature signifies and to which spirits it is bound, but in the interest of immersion and cultural specifics I would advice making them more subjective and less limiting. An example would be to not say that unicorns are Aedric spirits bound to Mara, but to say that the Maratic cults believe this to be so, and that other cults or folklore have their own view on them.
The problem with that, for me, is that it doesn't really hold up to what we already see in-game. Nobody questions that spriggans are servants of Kynareth, nor are dragons thought by anyone to be descended from Stendarr, etc.

With that said, this discussion did remind me of a concept I drew months ago, I never actually finished it and kinda lost interest but I'll post it here - it's supposed to be a Daedric servant of Sanguine- I had a few ideas for playing with the "only virgins may approach it" myth that never really panned out in my imagination. I did have a notion that one of its idle animations would involve playing with/stroking its horn (this is Sanguine, after all) :oops:

Image

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Infragris
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:40 pm

Nobody questions that spriggans are servants of Kynareth
The Skaal, for example, believe Spriggans are trees touched by the breath of the All-Maker when he brought life to the creatures. I don't mean that you would have ten different interpretations on these creatures, just that some people might go "Oh yes, the majestic unicorn, servant of Mara", and others be like "Them horned jungle goats are good eatings, they is." Not everybody is going to believe in the magical nature of the unicorn, and not everyone is going to care. This ties into the ambiguous nature of TES lore: the unicorn is a servant of Mara, but from within the world there is no way of ascertaining this since there is no voice of absolute authority. It's about presentation, not definition.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by TheDVI » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:21 am

In regards to the Unicorn, if I remember correctly ESO says that it was actually created by Hircine, and he lets one out of his Hunting Grounds every so often to act as the ultimate test for mortal huntsmen. Now I know we have no obligation to follow ESO In anything, but just something to think of.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by R-Zero » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:45 am

Saint_Jiub wrote: With that said, this discussion did remind me of a concept I drew months ago, I never actually finished it and kinda lost interest but I'll post it here - it's supposed to be a Daedric servant of Sanguine- I had a few ideas for playing with the "only virgins may approach it" myth that never really panned out in my imagination. I did have a notion that one of its idle animations would involve playing with/stroking its horn (this is Sanguine, after all) :oops:
The smug look on his face is priceless :lol: Very fitting for Sanguine, I'm stealing this for my headcanon.

I'm digging the idea of unicorns' nature being ambiguous. Like how lesser daedra of the same form serve different Princes, unicorns can have different masters too.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by LiquidHurlant » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:31 pm

The angler-kings of Nibenay:


Even the impish cormorant obey their Emperor's Voice. What if the cormorant were kept like pets instead of dogs? These birds may be the Cyrodilics' way for fishing the delicacy slaughterfish.

Here's a river newt:
Image
Image
A pachyderm-boar tank thing:
Image
The Dragon Guard:
Image

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Saint_Jiub » Sat May 28, 2016 8:51 pm

Not sure the top one necessarily works as a river newt, but as some other Nibenese creature it looks good.

What do we think about ESO's new critter, the Nixad? It's described as being native to the Great Forest and Gold Coast, and it's interesting looking to say the least. Since we're leaving out imps for the time being, these could fill a similar gameplay niche without feeling so forced/generic:

[hsimg=]http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/cms ... 1464468079[/hsimg]
Once a common sight in Cyrodiil's Great Forest, the red Sylvan Nixad is now most often encountered in the glades and meadows of the Gold Coast. Once tamed, they make charming companions, loyal and easy to care for. But they like their food highly seasoned, so when cooking, don't leave them alone in the kitchen near the spice rack.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by worsas » Sun May 29, 2016 8:46 am

I'm not a huge fan of this creature. To me it follows the evil-ugly=alien-interesting - premise too much. It would work for a lesser daedra maybe.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by Infragris » Sun May 29, 2016 8:46 pm

The basic idea is like a much improved Imp, and I quite like the name. But the visual design doesn't feel right. In general, I think explicitly humanoid creatures raise too many questions as to their origin.

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Re: Cyrodiil Creatures

Post by R-Zero » Mon May 30, 2016 10:14 am

Saint_Jiub wrote: Image
Looks like just a rehashed Imp, to be honest.
I don't remember TES universe having any insectohumanoid creatures (except the Prophet of Landfall), so it feels kinda out of place.

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