Cartography

Any province related discussion not fitting into other categories
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Infragris
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Cartography

Post by Infragris » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:50 pm

Overview and discussion of the geography of Cyrodiil: regions, waterways, roads, settlements, dungeon, landmarks, etc. This map is a work-in-progress.
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Last edited by Infragris on Sun May 03, 2015 10:29 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:09 am

Alright, priority matters first: Stirk features two caves that are still unnamed: the goblin cave at -135, -49, and a smuggler's grotto at -139, -51. These are my naming proposals:
Kingfisher Tribe Cave for the goblin cave: supposedly the name of the inhabiting Goblin tribe, who have a penchant for fish.
Land's End Grotto for the other one, since it's literally on the westernmost stretch of our landmass.

Any other proposals?

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Re: Cartography

Post by Scamp » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:49 pm

Sounds good to me. Could've sworn we had names for the caves, but I couldn't find anything on our forums nor in my files, so let's go with yours if nobody has objections.
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Re: Cartography

Post by SamirA » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:35 am

The only name I really remember was one of the Ayleid ruins being Wormusoel.

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Re: Cartography

Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:39 pm

I don't like the name Kingfisher Tribe Cave. IIrc none of the goblin tribes in Oblivion lived in caves/ruins named after them. I can't think of another name though.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:25 pm

How about just Kingfisher Cave, then? Sort of topical, without going into detail. It doesn't even have to be the name of the tribe.

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Re: Cartography

Post by SamirA » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:28 pm

I like Kingfisher Cave better anyway regardless of the tribe name dispute.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Jet133 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:55 pm

Hi everyone. So this is my first post for Province Cyrodiil. I have been following the forums a while and there have been various points I wanted to make but didn’t really know how to do so without just kinda… jumping into it. For that reason, I hope you don’t think I’m imposing on anything by listing this all out, especially if this doesn’t match with plans you might have that I don’t know about or other decisions that were made that I don’t remember.

This is all mainly based on looking at various maps (especially the one in the first post), skimming through UESP info, and what I remember off the top of my head from playing Oblivion. I understand not all the settlements from Oblivion will be used, but it provides a good jumping off point for me to have an overall layout. I also used the settlement size guidelines posted in another thread to lay out my list. I don’t have much to say on regions other than yes! More diversity! I do have some ideas for settlements, roads and dungeons. I figured this would be the correct place to put this since I'm mainly focused on how the map is laid out at the moment.

First, one issue I had with Oblivion was its population. Vvardenfell, Solstheim, and Mournhold together had almost 3000 named NPCs. Oblivion and Shivering Isles had around 1000. The goal here was to make a more populous Cyrodiil in line with the density of Vvardenfell. To that end, the Imperial City is huge. Massive. However, each of the various isles has a unique function and has a unique identity so they aren’t each just a clutter of buildings for the sake of a large city and busy-work for interior modelers. There’s a reason for each.

This brings me to the smaller settlements. In the same way Brina Cross was upgraded, most of the small villages/hamlets/farms/houses were upgraded to tier 3 or 4 settlements. There are some notes at the bottom that have more detail about them and why they are the tiers they are.

Second, and the main reason I made this list, is the placement of the small settlements and how the roads connected to them in Oblivion seemed so random. Which is why I suggest some slight shifting of exact locations of a few places and roads to make things make a bit more sense. Especially since roads are made to go to and from places for trade and travel, not right by them.

Third, there are a few areas on the current map that have a high density of one kind of location such as forts. I know not all will be active garrisons, but you’d still be able to stand on one and see four more before even reaching the horizon. I propose simply combining two close forts/caves into one in some areas for this reason.

If the rest of the province is going to have the same city/village/hamlet density as the current map has on the Gold Coast, then the Tier 4 and 5 lists will explode by the end of the project with many more names. Note that this list doesn’t include forts, active mines, camps, Daedric shrines, or bandit caves.

Tier 0: The Imperial City 200+ Interiors?
  • City Isle
    1. White-Gold Tower and "the wheel" if that's still a thing
    2. Emperor's palace and other administrative buildings (Elder Council seats, East Empire Company Headquarters, Imperial Geographical Society, etc.)
    3. Elven Gardens
    4. Talos Plaza
    5. Market District
    6. Green Emperor Way
  • Wayshrine Isle - Temple District?
  • Bastion Isle - Prison
  • University Isle - Arcane University and Orrery?
  • Waterfront District - Docks, docks everywhere
  • Arena/Entertainment Isle - Smaller island without a name
  • Low-class Living Isle
  • Foreign Quarter(?)
Tier 1: County Capitals 60-100 Interiors
  • Anvil
  • Kvatch
  • Skingrad
  • Chorrol
  • Bruma
  • Cheydinhal
  • Bravil
  • Leyawiin
Tier 2: Baronies 40-60 Interiors
  • Stirk
  • Sutch
  • Mir Corrup
  • Sarchal
  • Delodiil
  • Artemon
Tier 3: Market Towns/Large Villages 15-40 Interiors
  • Brina Cross
  • Aleswell
  • Bleaker's Way
  • Border Watch
  • Hackdirt
  • Shardrock
  • Brindle Home
  • Pell's Gate
  • Weye
Tier 4: Villages 5-15 Interiors
  • Sancre Tor(?)
  • Cloud Ruler Temple
  • Blankenmarch
  • Harlun's Watch
  • Water's Edge
  • Drakelowe
  • Harm's Folly
  • Faregyl
  • Gottlesfont Priory
  • Weynon Priory
  • Priory of the Nine (ruined)
  • Temple of the Ancestor Moths
  • (Unnamed Village - Colovian Highlands)
  • Thraswatch
  • Sep's Landing
Tier 5: Homesteads/Farms/Camps/Inns 1-5 Interiors
  • Gweden Farm
  • Gottshaw Inn
  • Drunken Dragon Inn
  • Noble Estate (Lord Drad's Estate?)
  • Noble Estate (Lord Rugdumph's Estate?)
  • Odiil Farm
  • Shetcombe
  • Greyland
  • Melus Petilius's Farm and Vena Petilius's Grave
  • Roland Jenseric's Cabin
  • Imperial Bridge Inn
  • Inn of Ill Omen
  • White Stallion Lodge
  • Roxey
  • Weatherleah
  • Knights of the Thorn Headquarters
  • Frostcrag Spire
  • (Unnamed House - Gold Coast)
Interiors: 1100+ based on minimum bounds
Settlements: 55+

NOTES:
Cities
  • In my opinion, I like Sarchal along the Black Road near the border with Hammerfell because the description above said it was Colovian and that area looked a little sparse. I figured you could put Fort Ontus, Fort Rayles, or Battlehorn Castle within the city to combine locations and have a defensive city on the border.
  • I imagined Delodiil being at the intersection where the Yellow and Purple Roads meet because that puts it in the middle of the Nibenay Basin and Nibenay Valley which feels fairly sparsely populated compared to west of the Imperial City. There are also a few locations that could be combined within the city. I'd move Fort Aurus, and Cadlew Chapel to within the city, remove Fort Flecia, and leave both Nenalata and Imperial Bridge Inn on the edge, but part of the city. This therefore makes it all "one" location. With the Ayleid ruin somewhat making up a partial city border, it seemed appropriate since Delodiil was supposedly a grand Ayleidic city.
  • For Artemon, I had no idea where to put it. My guess would be either east of Skingrad, or way to the east, in the middle of the Nibenay Basin halfway between Cheydinhal and Mir Corrup, around where Fort Naso and Fort Facian are currently.
  • There's also a Celediil mentioned, but it seems it was thoroughly destroyed. Maybe a new city built over the ruins of the old one? I imagine it taking one of the two places I listed for Artemon if it’s included.
Large Villages/Towns
  • Didn't include Cropsford because I don't think it was built yet in Morrowind's timeframe
  • Aleswell, Weye, and Pell's Gate were upgraded like Brina Cross because to me they all seemed to lie on crossroads for major thoroughfares, which is one reason that I think it would look better if the position of each got slightly shifted to line up with those intersections. Aleswell with silver, Weye with black, and Pell's Gate with green. They also would likely be the major transit points for people coming to and from the Imperial Isles before heading on their way throughout the province. This is also a reason that I would advocate for adding two more brand new settlements (not necessarily as big as tier 3) at the Red-Blue and Red-Yellow crossings, near where the two smaller islands get close to the mainland, so bridges can connect them (maybe Urasek, named after the fort there?).
Villages
  • Temple of the Ancestor Moths, Priory of the Nine, and Cloud Ruler Temple I imagine would be unique locations and would have unique exterior models so I they're in Tier 4 as it seems more appropriate.
  • Settlements such as Blankenmarch, Drakelowe, Harlun's Watch, and Harm's Folly would edge toward the upper limit of interiors on that tier, whereas ones such as Faregyl, Water's Edge, and the Priories would be smaller.
  • I propose a new village around Fort Teleman because of the proximity to the Argonian border.
Hamlets/Farms
  • Most of the tier 5 settlements here I would imagine being renamed or rewritten for this project as it takes place years before Morrowind. Some, like the inns or farms, would be good to include to have smaller points of interest on roads and in wilderness. Frostcrag Spire would be nice because it seems like a nice place to visit.
  • I would also like to see more tier 5 settlements along the borders with other provinces. Such as a three shack colony of bosmer on the Cyrodiil side of the Strid where the road heads from Skingrad to Valenwood, or some Khajiit living on the road southwest out of Faregyl. And perhaps an enclave of Hlaalu/Redoran living around the Boethiah Shrine in the Valus Mountians. Some reachmen north/west of the Hermaeus Mora shrine, etc., etc.
Roads
  • Add a minor road from Chorrol or Bruma heading north or northwest toward the location of Falkreath/Falkrenth and Elinhir.
  • Maybe move the end of the Purple Road (at the Yellow-Purple intersection) south to just north of the mouth of the Silverfish River so that Fort Flecia, Cadlew Chapel, Fort Aurus, Imperial Bridge Inn, and Nenalata can be combined into and built as part of the city Delodiil?
  • A more major road between Cheydinhal and the pass to Riften that extends south to Mir Corrup. Maybe another color of road? The Brown/Pink Road Perhaps? No reason more colors can't be added right?
  • Extend the Orange Road east from Bleaker's Way through Harm's Folly, terminating at Cheydinhal, and then southwest from Chorrol through Hackdirt, Weatherleah, Shardrock, Shetcombe Farm, and to Kvatch where that white road is now.
  • Perhaps adjust the southern end of the Silver Road to Match Aleswell's location a bit better.
If you’re still here, thanks for reading all this. I hope it sparks some sort of overall planning discussion on population and density. The settlement list seems kind of overwhelming to me. I would definitely like to know some opinions on all this, whether it’s good or makes me seem crazy. (P.S. - I just noticed the new thread on the roads crossing into TR after I typed all this. I'm still curious about that though.)
Last edited by Jet133 on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:58 am

Re: the placement of Sarchal- my vote is that it becomes a barony of Chorrol and we place it somewhere along the Black Road west of Battlehorn Castle. This gives us something to do between Sutch and Chorrol (a fairly large expanse of wilderness), and solves the lore issue associated with the dearth of cities in the Colovian Highlands proper.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:05 pm

That's a very nice overview, Jet133. Some of these issues have been addressed in the latest map update, which still needs some polish before uploading.

Sancre Tor's nature is still somewhat hazy, but I mainly gave it a city icon to indicate its scale, not its population. The way I see it, Sancre Tor is home to a small group of priests and pilgrims, living on the edge of a vast abandoned city/necropolis/temple structure. This book is an interesting take on the subject. It is said that the environment of the city is very arid and unsuited to agriculture, and also that Tiber Septim purposefully abandoned the city (which is very much in character for him - after all, Sancre Tor is an holy site for the Alessian and Remanite dynasties, not so much the Septimite).

I was hoping to put Sarchal in the upper east corner of County Kvatch, myself - mostly because Sarchal and Chorrol sound too much alike, and to give every release area at least two cities. That area along the Black Road is where I'd like to have the headquarters of the Colovian-based Legion, which should probably be combined with a town of some sort. Maybe not Sarchal, though.

Delodiil is described as a western kingdom in the Remanada, in the same breath as Anvil, Sarchal and Falkreath. I would rather not put in the Nibenay for this reason. Personally, I was thinking of putting it on the east border of County SKingrad, or perhaps bordering the southwest side of the Rumare.

The same thing sort of goes for Artemon: the only thing we know of it is that it is far from water, which isn't very easy in the Nibenay. Still, the area of Cheydinhal/Mir Corrup might make sense.

Celediil wasn't just destroyed, it was metaphysically erased from the maps of men and mer in such a way that the Divines threatened to abandon the Alessian rebellion because of it. Not likely to be inhabited, or even remembered. On the other hand, it could feature as a lost city/abandoned ruin somewhere, literally stomped into the earth or thrown outside of time and space somewhere.

Good points on the villages surrounding the Imperial City - these should definitely be upgraded, and a couple more added. This is the center of Niben agriculture. Note, though, that I don't think every single crossroad should have a village. Abandoned crossroads in the middle of the night are prime quest material.

We should should be careful when including provincial minorities around the borders, mostly because it's a lot of extra work for little pay. Such settlements should feature when they can be used for the region's grand narrative, such as the Khajiit on the Niben's west bank, which plays into the trans-Niben acquisition, or Dunmeri religious and political exiles in and around Cheydinhal, fleeing Temple opression etc. The shrine of Boethia is where I was hoping to put the Lamasery of Horns, a Nibene/Dunmer monastery providing our native Boethia questline. The problem with adding lots of settlements around borders is that the other side of the border is often unfinished, which might give these villages an odd vista over the great nothingness.

Passes through the Jerral and Valus Mountains should match up with TR and SHotN. I've even added icons for them in the latest map. TR is debating the inclusion and naming of their passes right now, but I don't think it should provide any problems for us. The Purple Road is part of this, and leads past Mir Corrup to the Narsis Pass, into Morrowind. The other road ideas could be implemented when we come to detailing these areas. I don't like the idea of adding more major roads, especially in the east, where boat transport is the norm. Remember that most of the "empty" areas over there consist of nothing but wild, untamed jungle - building a road over there is all but impossible.

EDIT: also note that the icons of most settlements only indicate their relative location, not their physical size or the number of cells they occupy. In most cases, moving roads or icons to "match up" is unnecessary, because the actual city will encompass them.

EDIT 2: updated OP with the latest map

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Re: Cartography

Post by Jet133 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:12 am

Thanks for all the feedback. I changed my list a bit based on the new map and information. Cleared up my confusion over Sancre Tor first of all. I figured it would be at least somewhat related to its depiction in Oblivion and the city icon threw me for a loop. You raise good points I hadn't thought of, but then again, I'm not very well versed in the lore. Speaking of lore, the locations of cities you mentioned in the first post were based on the descriptions of them there and the little scraps of information I found while writing without going through a full book from the game. I'm not particularly attached to those specific city names going to those specific places, just more so to the fact that I perceive there to be slight "population vacuum" in those places compared to what I would expect from the general feeling I get from playing through Oblivion or the little lore I know. I like your plan for Sarchal better, but I still like the idea of another large town/barony going where I listed for it even though that might make the area kinda dense with large settlements and I'm not sure how dense you envisioned it. Artemon was placed where it was because I figured there should be at least one large settlement in the area around the foothills of the Valus Mountains. Even if its not a major city in the way Mir Corrup or Bruma is, and more like a massive ashlander city would be, full of tents and shacks and yurts and other makeshift buildings or whatever, but obviously more Nibenese themed than an ashlander city would be.

For Celediil and Delodiil, the idea for the former being a current city can be scratched. Didn't think it was destroyed quite that thoroughly. Sounds interesting though. I'll have to read up on it. An Ayleid lost city would be intriguing. A metaphysical El Dorado for the Archaeological Society/Mages Guild perhaps? That sounds fun. Anyway. Placing Delodiil in a more western location I agree with. Now that I look at it, the West Weald and the heart of the Great Forest are really devoid of larger sized settlements. I didn't know it was described as a western kingdom and just saw the "Niben influences" in your description and figured I'd put it in that area. I personally would still like to see a barony sized city placed around the mouth of the Silverfish River. Especially if the waterways are to be the main source of travel. This provides a point for the legion to control the traffic along these main three water ways as well as providing a slightly better docking point than Bravil for those ships who might be heading up from Leyawiin and east to the Nibenay Basin, given the decent size of Niben Bay. Also provides a bit of symmetry with docking points on either side of the bay (not that that is needed or anything). I know that's purely logistics and won't matter for gameplay whatsoever... Plus, I like having one tier 2 settlement on the edge of the bay rather than a handful of tier 3's and 4's scattered about those rivers (even though there will be a few settlements here and there). I will say that the Nibenay Basin and the Jeralls areas are the only places in Oblivion where I actually felt like I was away from the people and in the wild.

I believe that the intersections of all the colored roads should have a settlement because to me they still represent major thoroughfares and trade routes, especially to other provinces. Such as the Black Road leading to Hammerfell/High Rock, and the Purple and Blue Roads leading to Morrowind. I agree about the abandoned crossroads point though, and I think most if not all of the white roads should not have any kind of settlement at their connecting points. Maybe just an inn if anything. And now that you mention it, I don't particularly like the addition of a major road in the east either.

When I was thinking of the border settlements, I was thinking more along the lines of Border Watch and the Dunmer around Cheydinhal and not just buildings for the sake of buildings. I'm sorry, I should have made my intent more clear when I wrote that. I'm a firm believer that every place should have a purpose, because those places that don't have much to offer aren't as memorable or interesting. Just because its small doesn't mean it can't be as entertaining as a larger place. As for their weird views over incomplete provinces, well, good point, because yeah, that didn't really occur to me. For the actual borders, I'm glad to see a few smaller mountain passes included. I did feel it was a bit weird to have only two points to cross over between Morrowind and Cyrodiil. Especially if you have to walk half the distance of Vvardenfell to get to one and cross over. Barring levitating all the way over the entire mountain range of course.

It seems the Imperial City is back to one island again based on the most recent map, so scratch all that about different isles. I still like the idea of the upper class areas being more centralized around White-Gold Tower. And an entertainment area with an arena and maybe theater/opera house similar to the stage/play from Tribunal. Could feature some SHotN bards if they're doing the bard's college. And maybe something along the lines of Suran's house of earthly delights, but I think the Imperial City might be classier than that...

As for the icon locations vs. actual location and size, I had figured as much. I just suggested moving them to help get my point across that those locations should be more connected with a nearby fort or intersection. Which is also one reason why I really like TR's recent "Master Plan" maps that have the exact location, size and shape outline of each settlement as well as the color of its related faction. Helps me visualize it better.

Again, thanks for the feedback and reading all this. I still feel like I'm imposing by telling you where things should be given that I'm not involved here. I just like to organize stuff to keep track of things (hence the settlement list). Especially if pre-planning can help avoid any future issues. With the amount of reworkings and shuffling that has occurred at TR over the years, I'm just hoping this project can avoid as much of that as possible. I think that's all I got for now. Thanks for listening!

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:22 pm

I completely agree about having a city on the western Black Road, and also about adding a lot of smaller settlements along the Niben Bay and river. The Nibenay is supposed to be one of the most urbanized areas in Tamriel, full of trade cities and rice farms. If it was up to me, there would be an uninterrupted chain of villages and farms following most of the river bank, and encircling Lake Rumare.

Note that the current shape of the Imperial Isle is in no way indicative of our plans for it. In the PGE I, it is stated that the City rests on eight islands, and I think everyone here intends to follow that description. I simply reverted it to its original shape because our concepts of how the islands and city will look are as yet unfinished, and I didn't want to make it seem like there was a decision there. It should be noted that the IC is one of the last areas this mod will touch, so discussion about it is a little premature (though by no means unwelcome).

Other changes on the latest map include:
  • aligned region borders with cells
  • Added names of Stirk caves
  • Added presumed Barrowlands region
  • Added more rivers, mangrove delta on Lake Rumare

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:01 pm

Alright, two proposals for your perusal, regarding our settlements and regions.

First, we have a map of towns and settlements:
[hsimg=]http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a58 ... 5179b7.jpg[/hsimg]
  • Changed the names of the Gold Coast fishing towns to Thresvy and Seppakai. The towns we "inherited" from Oblivion all have translated English names (Hackdirt, Brindle Home, etc.), and I wanted some villages with less obvious names, inspired by the work on Colovian and Redguard languages. The nature of these towns remains unchanged.
  • Added Wariel, Hastrel and Linchal as possible Tier V settlements in Kvatch. These were ruined forts in Oblivion, but some lore texts mention them as noble houses. These can be some of the famed Colovian cliff-fortresses, their inhabitants being Colo-Nordic barons and lords. Note that the current names are those of the ruling noble houses: any actual village should probably get a different name (see the Colovian language guide).
  • Noted location of some Daedric shrines which can be developed into villages or monasteries
  • Added Fort Ontus as settlement: serving as the headquarters of the Imperial legion in Colovia, could be an Ebonheart-like populated fortress.
  • Proposed locations for the three new cities discussed above: Sarchal, Delodiil, and Artemon. Sarchal is a barony west of Skingrad, which is the most populated, agrarian area of Colovia. It is ruled by the Mede dynasty, a minor Colo-Nordic house. Delodiil is the easternmost of the Colovian Estates, lying on the banks of lake Rumare. A double-faced city, with equal influences of Nibenay and Colovia. Artemon lies on the Blue Road in County Cheydinhal. These locations are merely proposals, and subject to change.
  • In time, more settlements should be added to the shores of Rumare and the Niben river, which is supposed to be far more populated and urbanized than the west.
Next up, a map of new regions and sub-regions. This is all very speculative, just throwing thing out to see what sticks:
[hsimg=]http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a58 ... 6b571c.jpg[/hsimg]
  • The Barrowlands: north of the Colovian Highlands, west of the Jerall Mountains. Centered around the temple-city of Sancre Tor, the Barrowlands are a large mesa littered with the tombs and monuments of the princes of Colovia. Said to be exceptionally arid, unable to support itself: no agriculture, very little flora, and almost no habitation. The Barrowlands are a wilderness area. Proposed visual influence: Cappadocia.
  • The Golden/Gilded Foothills: northern Gold Coast. Discussion about Sutch and its environment has assumed the region to be very rocky and uneven: Sutch itself rests on a needle of rock in a kind of canyon, while the view of (non-existent) Hammerfell is supposed to be blocked by a range of hills. There's also the presence of Bleak Mine to back this up. I propose we make this an official sub-region, using mostly the same visuals as the Gold Coast, but with elevated plateaus and ravines. This would serve as a transit-region between the Gold Coast and the Colovian Highlands, making this transition less sudden.
  • The Pass of Kvatch: transit-region between the Gold Coast and the West Weald. Currently, Kvatch lies on the exact split between three different regions: this could look very awkward knowing how sudden region transitions are in Morrowind.
  • The Great Forest: this region needs a new name. Very nondescript, not even the largest forest on the map. This would be our first real jungle environment.
  • Mangroves: proposed sub-region in the Great Forest, serving as partial transit towards the Heartlands. A sort of inland delta, marshy and treacherous. Placeholder name, obvs.
  • The Weald Hills: inspired by the rocky maze east of Skingrad in Oblivion. A treacherous labyrinth of low hills and cliffs, serving to obscure the view of Elsweyr. Favored by goat herds. Placeholder name.
  • The Heartlands: I've increased the size of the Heartlands to the south, taking up all the land up until the Nibenay Valley (which used to be Great Forest). This helps to make the Great Forset a more geographically bound area, and gives the Heartlands some actual space to shine (befitting its importance).
  • Nibenay Bassin: another area which I think would benefit from a name change. It's too easy to confuse it with the Nibenay Valley, also, a little bit dull.
  • The Nibenay Valley: always thought this area was way too small, increased it to take up space on both banks of the Niben to the south. This would be a heavily urbanized, cultured place, with fishing and farming villages along the river, many temples and shrines (alternative name: the Holy Valley). Most of the jungle along the way has been cleared for agriculture (rice paddies).
  • The Mir: area around Mir Corrup: sub-region of the Nibenay Bassin, jungle with slight volcanic activity, fitting with Mir Corrup's hot springs. A variation on the jungle theme.
  • The West Bank: uplands close to the border with Elsweyr, more arid due to the desert's influence. Usd to be a part of Elsweyr, lots of Khajiiti influences in places, dungeons, border forts etc. Not very jungle-like at all, more like a long stretch of oasis. Keeping Blackwood confined to the east bank makes it feel more like an extension of Argonia.

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Re: Cartography

Post by SamirA » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:33 pm

I like these ideas and the thought that has been put into them. It will be interesting to see them with assets being used to create them.

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Re: Cartography

Post by worsas » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:49 pm

The province starts to feel more palpable now with the more refined region layouts and descriptions. The only region of which I have mental picture at all yet, is the Nibenay Bassin, which apparently still needs a proper name aswell.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Tes96 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:45 am

Some inspiring pictures from Kerela and Karnataka of India that may be of influence for the dense rainforest regions.

Roots from Myristica swamps and some misty mountains from Agumbe, Karnataka. Homes in Agumbe.
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Biboran
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Re: Cartography

Post by Biboran » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:29 am

Can you please give a complete map of the first post, but without the grid? If this is allowed.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:36 pm

Time for another exciting round of map shuffle! Here's my new baby:
[hsimg=]http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a58 ... em1zq0.jpg[/hsimg]

Couple of big changes: first, I moved Artemon to the western Valus mountains. In the previous map I pinned it in the east, but in the end it didn't feel right since Artemon is supposed to be far from water. I also experimented a little with Colovian placenames, and added some hypothetical settlements to the east (all the nameless white dots, basically). The Nibenay is supposed to be one of the most densely populated areas of Tamriel, and our work should reflect that. Sharp eyes may notice a new village called Nepenthe on the location of the shrine of Vaernima: this is the holy city of the Dried Lotus Cult, the Nibenay's resident dealers in sacred drugs. I also changed the name of the Khajiiti town of Borderwatch to Trariraj, an attempted translation.

Now for the exciting part: here are some of the region changes that I would like to propose:
  • The Gilded Foothills: transit-region between the Gold Coast and the Colovian Highlands. More or less the same as the Gold Coast, but even more dry and arid, with large ravines and canyons blocking the northern desert winds. This is the location of the rock-city of Sutch, and the area as a whole has strong Redguard influences.
  • The Pass of Kvatch: this transit region between the Gold Coast and the West Weald is the only safe passage for trade on the Golden Road. This arid, wind-blasted valley is dominated by the squat hill on which rests the city of Kvatch, looming over a curve in the road. To the north it transitions into the Colovian Highlands.
  • The Barrowlands: probably well-known to all by now, this arid desert plateau is home to the underground temple-city of Sancre Tor, as well as scores of ancient burial mounds used by the Colovian lords. The land is singularly unfit for agriculture, and only visited by pilgrims and merchant caravans from the north.
  • Pale Pass: this broad pass cuts the Jerall Mountains in two, allowing safe passage to Skyrim in summer. The pass is bisected by the great Valga river, which has been tamed with Imperial-made locks and stone dams, allowing merchant barges to descend to the Imperial City.
  • Knifehead Hills: also known as the Restless Hills, this sloping ridge of white cliffs divides Cyrodiil and Elsweyr. Almost uninhabited, save for a small number of goatherds and the occasional lost Khajiiti dunewalker. Not so sure about this name, anybody have an opinion?
  • Massiquerran Mors: also known as the Great Forest, this large jungle surrounds the Heartlands to the west and north. Somewhat more temperate than its subtropical cousin-forests in the east and south, though no less treacherous. The name roughly translates to "Forest of Terrible War", a reference to the many battles that were fought underneath its eaves during the War of Righteousness.
  • The Ruma Floodlands: a stretch of marshes and mangroves on the west banks of the Lake Rumare. This region features the old city of Delodiil, where Colovia and Nibenay intermingle, and the market-temple of the Little Key Cult.
  • Ora Demergatur: a section of the Heartland which was subject to a massive flood some time ago, caused by imperfect Imperial water management. The area has been reshaped into a large mudflat, dotted with the flooded remains of villages, temples, fortresses and washed up ruins. The name translates to "the Drowned Bank" (Imperials refer to the shores of the lake Rumare as the different "Oras" or banks: Ora Demergatur, Ora Rumancra, Ora Mercatum, Ora Lurisanguis, Ora Vieramnes).
  • Serican Mors: counterpart of the Massiqueran Mors, this thick jungle is also known as the "Forest of Silk". It is a favored breeding ground for moths. The interior of the Serican Mors is forbidden due to tigers.
  • The Valley of Altars: also known as the Niben Bassin, this relatively sparse jungle is criss-crossed with dozens of little rivers and ponds. The area is dotted with many minor villages, monasteries and temples.
  • Iter Mir: the dangerous volcanic marshlands surrounding the ancient city of Mir Corrup. Geisers and sulfuric vents spout are frequent, giving cause to the dense fog that blankets this part of the jungle at all times. Mineral deposits form the depths of the earth cause the clay and flora to assume lurid and unhealthy colors. The city of Mir Corrup is well-known for its hot springs and sacred baths, but one is well-advised not to swim in the Lake Canulus, the water of which is highly caustic.
  • Molaquin Ren: a strip of land on the west coast of the Niben, marking the old border between the Nibenay and the open jungle of Anequina to the west. Claimed by Cyrodiil in the trans-Niben Acquisition, though the land continues to be heavily influenced by Khajiiti and their culture.
  • Topal Bay: southernmost region of Cyrodiil, comprising the waters of the bay and the dense mangrove forests that indicate, roughly, where the land is supposed to end.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Tes96 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:24 pm

Beautiful.
Was Artemon in TESIV?
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:04 pm

Artemon didn't feature in TES IV, but it was mentioned in some books.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Ald-Ma' Cyrod » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:16 pm

no artemon in oblivion, i think thats from mks kotn pelinal/alessia stuff

looks brilliant infragris. is there a higher res map? i cant see properly but the green sections above the valley of altars (around cheydinhal in terms of oblivions placement iirc) could use more rivers and more water surface area in general. more to make way for some minor villages and landmarks along the banks as the area looks pretty bare atm

all only imo ofc. moonhead hills? the area marked looks like a crescent to me

my phone makes me illiterate, ill post more on pc later. awesome work again tho
"Weird is relative." - S'Rathra

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:31 pm

The entire Niben area should be full of minor rivers, lakes and marshes - according to the PGE, the preferred method of transportation here is by boat. I'm just hesitant to add these to the map because it is more of an exteriors job - an area I have no experience with.

Moonhead Hills sounds nice. Sort of makes a connection with the Khajiit. I'd like the name to imply something like a maze of razor-sharp rocks, though. Which is tricky.

How is this for a high-res version?

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Re: Cartography

Post by Ald-Ma' Cyrod » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:40 pm

thats a beauty. this should greyscale + sepia and be put in game somewhere when finished

yeah, boat and river paths iirc. glad to hear that the niben will be having more water, i like the idea of the player needing to slug it through shallow river paths instead of overland like in the majority of morrowind and skyrim. kinda like how you could take the odai from balmora to hla oad, except these river paths should be the only easy way through some parts of nibs terrain
"Weird is relative." - S'Rathra

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:45 am

Ideally, some places in the Topal Bay or southern jungles would have more water than land.

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Re: Cartography

Post by worsas » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:27 pm

The very east of the province seems extremely sparsely populated on your latest map. That would be very sparse, even for an inhospitable, remote area. But maybe we can agree about the exterior modder adding in small hamlets where he sees fit? Same thing as with the rivers.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:39 am

Most of the dense jungle (Serican Mors, Blackwood) and the eastern mountains would be almost unpopulated: these are the equivalent of the Ashlands, sort of. The Valley of Altars would be pretty populated, maybe even a city or two in there. In general, it's more interesting to have a sharp contrast between populated areas and wilderness - also helps to signal the general level of difficulty for the player.

Exterior modders should be free to add farms and generic houses to their claims where appropriate, but I think anything over five buildings/interiors should be proposed on the forum first - mostly to avoid issues with interior claims and NPCs. Locations that are meant to be special (wizard's towers, noble manors, places with a story, etc.) should probably be vetted before being built, too.

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Re: Cartography

Post by Fiore1300 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:21 am

Infragris, could you upload a blank version of the Cyrodiil map you're using? Geography is really an interest of mine, and I thought I could illustrate a few points you guys might find useful in this exercise.
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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:03 am

Sure. How "blank" do you need it exactly: just the map contours, or also regions, heightmap, borders, ...?

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Re: Cartography

Post by Fiore1300 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:02 pm

Infragris wrote:Sure. How "blank" do you need it exactly: just the map contours, or also regions, heightmap, borders, ...?
Just the map contours should be fine.
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Re: Cartography

Post by Infragris » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:30 pm

Right: this should be fine?

Another thing: here's a new WIP file with some more attention for settlements and possible place names:
[hsimg=]http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a58 ... g~original[/hsimg]

Give those new place names a peep and tell me how you feel about them. Same goes for the region names.

Anybody who had ideas concerning a place name, region or a village to add should post them, btw.

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