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Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:49 am
by Texafornian
Thanks Berry and Yeti! I'll implement both sets of suggestions & changes.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:13 am
by Texafornian
Uploading the first three quests (KWTG01 - KWTG03) here as a backup. Feel free to test if interested, but note that I haven't added rewards or rank advancement yet. Based on Sky_Main_12-26_17.esp by Iskuss.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:41 pm
by Yeti
Cool. I'll try to check these out soon.

I'm not sure we should implement rank advancement for the guilds until we know how to balance that for the rest of the province.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:44 pm
by Texafornian
All quests are done and ready for review and playtesting!

Very important information:
Don't delete the Sky_iRe_KW_Cave_Rimiah NPC entry from the ESP! She has ownership of a number of objects in KW's Thieves Guild Hideout cell. She can be deleted from that cell, but deleting her NPC entry from the ESP can only occur AFTER changing the objects' ownerships to Sky_iRe_KW_Cave_Kanah in Sky_Main.esp.

The new Boar Snout Clan manor vault might need a makeover by an interior dev...

Rank advancement was not included.

Modify Objects:
T_Rga_SetReach_DoorIn_01 (The Droopy Mare: Tavern, -128, -354.151, 0) ***
Imp_DngSewers_DoorGrate_01 (The Droopy Mare: Tavern, 612.479, -335.37, -558.866) ***
Sky_Reach_kw_thievesgT2 (Karthwasten Caves, Thieves Guild Hideout, 3514.503, 8000.718, 14274.287) -> Ownership set to Sky_iRe_KW_Cave_Kanah and global Sky_qRE_KWTG07_Glb_QuestDone

The edits to the two Droopy Mare doors (they should be unlocked via the key "Sky_qRE_KWTG04_Key") don't appear to be saving correctly, probably as a result of how the ESP edits work. Possibly the same situation for the TG closet, which needs to have the global "Sky_qRE_KWTG07_Glb_QuestDone" added to its ownership field.

Delete Objects:
Sky_iRe_KW_Cave_Rimiah (Karthwasten Caves, Thieves Guild Hideout)
T_Rga_SetReach_I_TileHall_01 (Hall of the Boar Snout Clan, 4864, 2176, 15360)
T_Rga_SetReach_I_TileHall_01 (Hall of the Boar Snout Clan, 4608, 2176, 15360)
Sky_iRe_kwtunnels_assasin list (Karthwasten Caves, Sur-Rata Caverns, -1902.692, 1281.803, -283.245)
T_Sky_Cave_DoorNatIn_01 (Karthwasten Caves, Upper Caverns, 5268.464, 9683.819, 14120.760) -> Place Sky_qRE_KWTG07_DoorUpper in the same spot
T_Sky_Cave_DoorNatIn_01 (Karthwasten Caves, Lower Caverns, 8119.530, 1473.370, 11625.255) -> Place Sky_qRE_KWTG07_DoorLower in the same spot

Changelog of other things that should be error-free:

Code: Select all

New Quest IDs:


New NPCs:


Modified NPCs:

Sky_iRe_KW_Caponicus -> Added last name "Valian" and changed script

Sky_iRe_KW_Driziiri -> Changed script
Sky_iRe_KW_Geod -> Changed script
Sky_iRe_KW_TiesTheBark -> Changed script

Sky_iRe_KW_Corelyn -> Changed script

Sky_iRe_KW_Bridnar -> Changed script
Sky_iRe_KW_Samine -> Changed script

Sky_iRe_KW_Cave_Rakan -> Changed script
Sky_iRe_KW_Cave_RG_W_01 through _08 -> Changed scripts

New Objects:

Sky_qRE_KwTG01_Book (Book)
Sky_qRE_KwTG01_Ring (Clothing)
Sky_qRE_KwTG01_RingFiller (Clothing)

Sky_qRE_KwTG03_Dagger (Weapon)

Sky_qRE_KWTG04_Key Misc)
Sky_qRE_KWTG04_Notes (Book)
Sky_qRE_KWTG04_Potion (Misc)

Sky_qRE_KwTG05_RealMap (Misc)
Sky_qRE_KwTG05_FakeMap (Misc)
Sky_qRE_KWTG05_Chest (Container)

Sky_qRE_KWTG06_Button (Activator)
Sky_qRE_KWTG06_Door (Activator)
Sky_qRE_KWTG06_Heirloom (Armor)
Sky_qRE_KWTG06_Enchant (Enchanting)
Sky_qRE_KWTG06_Reward (Clothing)

Sky_qRE_KWTG07_DoorLower (Door)
Sky_qRE_KWTG07_DoorUpper (Door)
Sky_qRE_KWTG07_Letter (Book)
Sky_qRE_KWTG07_List (Book)
Sky_qRE_KWTG07_Key (Misc)

New Scripts:








New Globals:


Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:00 am
by berry
I'm to give this a thorough run still, but there's one huge bug I'd like to report already. I don't really understand why, but the new topics introduced by both these esps don't appear instantly, how they normally do. For instance, I had to console-add the topic "jobs" to be able to ask Lorvacah for new quests, despite her using that phrase just a line before in her dialogue. Likewise, the topic "Driiziri" (and probably the other two as well, I haven't played past that moment) only appears when she mentiones her name, not when it's spoken by the dealer.

Can anyone else confirm this as well?


That being said, from what I've been able to see, these are some great quests. :) I'll provide a more complete review later on.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:33 am
by Texafornian
That's pretty strange, thanks for the heads-up. Maybe there's something going in dialogue entries that introduce new topics + advance the journal state. I've reuploaded the ESP with AddTopic included in various dialogue results.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:49 pm
by berry
My theory is the MW engine thinks the symbols used in these dialogue lines aren't letters, for some reason. For instance, with the newest file the topic "jobs" appears in the topics list instantly as the previous quest is finished, but it isn't highlighted in Lorvacah's dialogue.

Did you copy some of these dialogues from an external text editor, perhaps? That's rather weird at any rate.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:39 pm
by Luxray

Make the 'someone in particular' direct you more openly to J'Diir. I expected him to be in the poor quarter or in the droopy mare tavern, instead he was in a tavern on the other side of town (not hinted anywhere, quite annoying IMO). If it's hinted something like 'he's usually hanging around in one of the taverns' that would be enough to stop a 10 minute hike around the poor quarter

Lorvacah later tells you J'diir is in the dancing saber at the start of his Moon Sugar quest (you will already know this if you find him), maybe change her dialogue to say 'he is STILL in the dancing saber'

J'diir does not tell you how much gold to ask for in return for his deliveries so picking either of the options felt like a bit of a crapshoot like i was making it up. would be better if he told you the price he usually charges

After delivering the moon sugar to Ties-the-bark, Geod and Driziiri in that order I only got 2 journal updates saying I delivered first to Geod and then to Ties-the-bark meaning I couldn't progress further in the quest.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:56 am
by Texafornian
Thanks for the suggestions and bug reports!

@Berry: There were actually two issues: 1) I was a bit too rigid with my conditions for the dialogue topics (they wouldn't hyperlink in the same dialogue entry where the required journal state was set) and 2) one or two topics had incorrect characters, leading to missing hyperlinks.

@Luxray: I had set the wrong "Journal" entry states for Driziiri in the dialogue results, hence the missing journal upates.

Everything mentioned so far should be added/resolved in the attached ESP.

And a quick heads-up that:
- You'll encounter Boss Kanah and Boss Rimiah in the same spot. I originally wanted to just rename the Boss Rimiah NPC's ID to Kanah, but I didn't know if it'd cause issues with existing object ownership, so I elected to just create a new NPC.
- You'll need to "unlock" the two doors in the Droopy Mare that lead to the tunnels as their "keys" apparently need to be set to "Sky_qRE_KWTG04_Key" post-merge.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:39 pm
by berry
Some more serious bugs and the more general feedback (I'm running the 07 Jan file):

- Rianard's secret potion needs a more distinct model badly, period :P there are so many flasks like these in here I spent an hour wandering around this int and looking everywhere before giving up to look for in CS. Perhaps an upscaled vanilla potion would do? Or the fabricants' elixir/Flin?
- Shog gra-Jogga forcegreets PC instantly the moment they enter the cell, ignoring the detection test. Perhaps a distance check could be added to her script too, just to be sure;
- perhaps T_ScObj_HiddenDoorSHOTN script can be adapted for the doors, instead of disabling it, both to fully utilise that cool asset and make it more consistent with how it's used elsewhere;
- it might be cool to add a 1-2 sec. blackout to Erald's dialogue, as he's preparing the map, for better immersion, as long as it is easily doable using the result box (I'm not sure about it myself);
- both documents in the Resistance headquarters in quest 7 appear the moment one screws up the quest, ie. they are set to filter wrong journal entry;
- there appears to be no dialogues for the Redguards in Sur-Rata caverns, to deliver the map or otherwise;
- I think PC's dialogue choices could be made more generic, with the vanilla-like simple "continues" used more often. The one striking instance is when PC is forced to ask the boss who the Sogat Dur-Gada is, as it's the only dialogue choice available - there will be a good chance the PC will have already known the name from some other sources. It could be changed to the boss just assuming they are ignorant (that would fit her personality well I think, too);
- with quests with so many objectives, the journal entries could be expanded to be more descriptive and redolent. Right now it is hard to remember what exactly we are supposed to do in each area

I'm sorry if I'm sounding overly negative, I think it's the most impressive questline and I did enjoy it a lot. :)

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:47 pm
by Texafornian
Not at all, berry. I appreciate the comments as I'd like to try to develop my quest claim as close as possible to the SHOTN exterior/interior level of quality.

One quick question... did you get the journal entry "I gained access into the Sogat Dur-Gada hideout." before you looked for the two documents in the Sogat Dur-Gada hideout? I replaced the two doors (Upper Cavern and Lower Cavern) that lead into the Sogat Dur-Gada cell with two unique, scripted doors, but the original doors still appear in Clean_Sky_qRE_KWThievesGuild.ESP, just like Boss Rimiah.

Normally you're blocked from entering the Sogat Dur-Gada cell until you click on the scripted door and give the password. You then get that journal entry above and the two objects appear.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:42 pm
by berry
Ah, that covers it, I missed the part about Sky_main doors overlapping unique doors in your earlier post. Now the quest works, sorry for the commotion.

Still, is it actually possible to grab these two letters without using a gamey way, like spell-commanding both leaders out the cave? I couldn't think of a way, as an invisiblity potion received earlier or "hello-rotating" the leaders didn't do the trick, but I'm not very experienced when it comes to MW thievery. Perhaps they could be hidden somewhere in the cave? Maybe the Nord prisoner could be able to provide some overheard hints about their locations (dropping a name of the spy's contact? The correspondence would be somewhere next to them)?

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:49 am
by Texafornian
Yeah, that's a good idea. I'll rework the quest to move the intelligence to other locations and also allow the player to optionally get info from the prisoner in exchange for securing his escape.

I'm assuming there are no planned uses so far for that prisoner?

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:05 am
by roerich
I'm assuming there are no planned uses so far for that prisoner?
Nope, go nuts.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:57 am
by Texafornian
Here's the latest version for review. Many of the changes are under-the-hood (fixing scripts, journal entries, dialogue conditions, punctuation, text characters, books, etc.), but the Nord prisoner now provides some info on where to find the (moved) intelligence in the Sogat Dur-Gada hideout if you can't find it yourself.

You can ignore the "Attn Merger" file for now.

And here are the issues that require merging to fix:
- Boss Kanah and Boss Rimiah (deprecated) are in the same spot. (I could have avoided causing this to happen, whoops)
- You'll need to manually unlock the two doors in the Droopy Mare that lead to the tunnels as their "keys" apparently need to be set to "Sky_qRE_KWTG04_Key" post-merge.
- You have to disable at least one of the hall pieces in the Boar Snout Clan manor to actually see the vault entrance. Disable it, save the game, then load the game to fix the collision so that you can walk inside the vault.
- Walk up to one of the two entrances into the Sogat Dur-Gada hideout (Upper or Lower Caverns) and disable either one of them to reveal the new password-locked entrance. Give the password to advance the quest to the correct state. Or just type "Journal Sky_qRe_KWTG07_Journal 20" then "coc" into the Hideout.
- There are two Nord prisoners in the Sogat Dur-Gada hideout.
- You can't take Boss Kanah's gift at the end of the chain without getting kicked out of the TG.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:39 pm
by worsas
I have only playtested a part from it. But here are my initial thoughts:

- I have had difficulties in finding the "Droopy Mare" - Tavern. It would have helped, if J'Diir had given some basic directions like "you will find it at the northwestern corner of town".
- That the introductory quest for the guild is a pickpocket - one, seems to put the bar very high. Can't the pc be tasked to steal something outside of an npc - inventory instead for the first quest?

Other than that I haven't come across any problems yet.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:27 pm
by Texafornian
The claim ESP above is now outdated in regards to the latest Sky_Main versions due to T_D v5.1 changes + other things. I'm going to re-submit the claim soonish.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:35 pm
by Yeti
Once you do, Texafornian, I'll make sure to play through your file finally. My apologies for not playtesting it sooner.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild [Texafornian] (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06)

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:17 pm
by Texafornian
No problem. The claim wasn't really ever in a 100%-ready state, anyway.

Your Dragonstar dialogue is looking great, btw.

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06) [Texafornian]

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:00 pm
by Texafornian
Updated the claim to work with the new dialogue placeholder system, added more dialogue, and fixed some bugs.

The playtest version is the latest Sky_Main merged with the latest version of the claim (necessary to get some quest mechanics to work) and is available here:

Re: Karthwasten Quests: Thieves Guild (Sky_qRe_KwTG01-06) [Texafornian]

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:20 pm
by Luxray
Moved to Reviewing. (Please DL and playtest!)