Karthgad Quest: Falling in the back (Sky_qRe-Kg02)

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worsas
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Karthgad Quest: Falling in the back (Sky_qRe-Kg02)

Post by worsas » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:57 pm

-One of the bear clan guys (Borhul?) will ask you to talk with him in privy. If you agree he will tell you about his plans to kill a certain other Nord in the village so you two can share that persons costly possession (a special claymore and gold) afterwards.

The plan is as follows: You will go to that nord and ask him for a meeting with the bear clan - nord at the northern village-gate to go hunting together. When that nord agrees, you will go with „the victim“ to that village gate to meet the bear clan guy. Then you will jointly walk up the road for a while. When you have taken some distance from the village, you two will turn upon the guy, kill him and rob him, hahaha.

-Everything happens as described in the plan. Only the end differs: When you have taken distance from the village, the two nords will laugh and tell you about their true plan of killing you instead. After that revelation they will both attack you (to get themselves killed and robbed, of course).

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berry
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Post by berry » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:22 pm

Here's how I imagined this quest could look like, with journal entries proposals written out in a pdf so far. I took two generic NPCs from Yeti's dialogue; one of them needed to have a house (the 'victim'; that's where the letter would be hidden), questgiver should be moved from thane's hall to the streets as well.

There are two possible ways to complete this quest; player can also agree to this proposal, but then make a small investigation and find out it's a ploy.

What do you think? I'm sorry for grammar errors and some poor wordings, foremostly I wanted to share my proposed plan for this quest.
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worsas
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Post by worsas » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:21 pm

I like how you added more complexity to the quest idea. Only I wonder, if Gondvyrd wouldn't try to avoid conflicts with the bear clan. You could modify the outcome where he receives proof of their plans in a way that Gondvyrd will say he will try to handle the situation and ask you to keep clear of these two people in the next time instead of speaking about immediate imprisonment. Whaddya think?

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Post by berry » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:36 pm

Glad you like it. It's a good point you made, it makes more sense that way - thane's/huscarl's authority is very fragile here. I had this idea to take your proposal even further, and make Gondvyrd say he'll take care of it... only to clear their records afterwards, all not to taunt the Bear Clan. On reflection, I dismissed this concept though - I realised I'm trying to turn the clan into a mafia again . :) That would be wrong direction to follow.

Actually, how about not making Barjorg one of the Bears? The clan will be getting much attention in S'viir's and especially the Bosmer quest already, plus they have many dialogue lines for themselves... we should avoid creating an impression Karthgad is a village about one clan only, there are some other denizens with their own stories there too. In fact, that way it makes sense why the thane is so extraordinarly resolute in this case - he's trying to win Bears' favors that way. They have a monopoly on the robbery in the village after all.

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Post by worsas » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:18 pm

This quest is an opportunity of showing the bear clans mentality to the player, so I would definitely go by keeping Barjorg a bear clan member. There aren't so many quests that interact with this mini faction.

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Post by roerich » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:50 am

This sounds great. The throne's authority here should have a hard time disciplining the Bear Clan within their own den. Their primary objective in the area is keeping the roads clean of brigands and Reachmen.

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Post by berry » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:37 pm

It's fine with me if he remains the member; I agree quest like this portrays Bears' mentality quite well actually. I'm still not sure about having as many as 3 misc quests about the clan, but then vanilla MW goes with similar numbers for it's minor factions (Twin Lamps, vampire clans), so it should be fine.

I'd like to claim this one. Just to be sure, all should be fine if I used the house currently used for Carnas' house as the house of the "victim"? From what I've gathered there are no special plans for it and it was supposed to be a commoner's place, right? Grandr's house should be somewhere by a gate, so it's either this one, or one of these two small houses by the southern gate really - and I think the slopy landscape there can be troublesome for AI.

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Post by worsas » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:54 am

I can't really answer on the usage of Carnas' house, but in the worst case, it shouldn't be too difficult to switch the house later?

In theory it would be Yetis business to grant you this claim, but I doubt he will have major objections. Have at it. :)

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Post by berry » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:35 am

I eventually decided to abandon the idea of Barjorg "apparently hearing Grandr screaming and attacking PC instantly" (it was quite far-fetched tbh) and made it implemented using dialogues/forcegreet, plus I made Barjorg's going to the gate script depenend on ye olde enable/disable for simplicity, and Grandr's on AiFollow player, so these two can be placed now pretty much anywhere in the Reach :P Yeti would be able to relocate them however he feels fit.

I have to say this quest is an extreme fun to work on. It's challenging to write proper dialogues for 3 different Nord males, so their characters wouldn't feel too similar. A little teaser:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/glZ1VR8.png[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/8xWXo5X.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/o44Jdm5.png[/hsimg]

These dialogues would of course require a proofreading by some fine soul when I'm done with them. :)

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Post by worsas » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:49 pm

I really like these dialogue snippets. Keep it up.

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Post by berry » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Finished. Probably never before so much work's been put in scripting the least optimal way to solve the quest (ie. falling right in manhunter's trap). All three solutions to this quest are implemented, working and fun, if I might say so. :) It'd be great if someone had some time to give this a thorough crash-testing run - I hope I thought of everything to make this bug-proof, but with so many variables taking place here it's possible I missed something.

Some notes:

1. Cells currently involved - Karthgad; Karthgad, Carnas' House; -102, 12 wilderness cell (forest cell north of Karthgad). Only the last one is "hard-coded" - it'll be possible to move Barjorg1/Grandr/letter(s) to Grandr anywhere else.

2. For this quest I defined new global, Sky_qRe_PCSex. That was mandatory, because I needed a sex check in a script (to disable/enable a proper note, depending on PC's gender), and vanilla PC Sex is limited to dialogues. This global can be used in other scripts too if needed. That's how it works:

Code: Select all

;NOTES ON GENDER DETECTION IN SCRIPTS:
;vanilla PC Sex function is limited to dialogue entries only, so to detect player's sex in this script I defined a new Global - Sky_qRe_PCSex
;it's safe and fine to use in other SHotN scripts if needed, just remember to set it's value through dialogue before
;see Barjorg1's first greeting(s) under Greeting 5 ("New in town, eh...?") to make sure how it works
;Sky_qRe_PCSex = 2 - female
;Sky_qRe_PCSex = 1 - male
;PC Sex = 0 - male
;PC Sex = 1 - female
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/MyC6pyE.png[/hsimg]

3. Barjorg currently tends to stutter for a while before he properly attacks PC in ambush. I've been checking his script extensively, and my current theory is that's because of a height difference between him and PC, plus there are many objects blocking the line of view there (bushes, grass). I will rearrange the ambush site in main file eventually and see if that helped with that issue. Still - everything works, if only a tad awkwardly.

4. I wouldn't be myself if I didn't make some exterior changes as well :P I detailed the area around the place of ambush (adding the arch and some goats pasturing below it) and rearranged how Bear Clan's banner is hanged from their HQ, to make it much less awkward (an earlier take on the banner should be removed from main exterior file).

5. There are some flavour dialogues going with this quest - guards got two lines, as well as other Bear Clan members and thane Grondvyrd - but I haven't implemented the latest rumour, for the sake of not screwing anything. It should be implemented with the rest of Karthgad dialogues.

6. _Sky_qRe_KG2_act activators are safe to be removed in reviewing process, they were only used to grab coordinates for Barjorg's travel. Sky_qRe_KG2_Ambush is used by a script and mustn't be removed though.

I think that's it. Enjoy and let me know what you think. :)
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Post by worsas » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:53 pm

I have tested two outcomes and both played out well.

On Carnas' house. I realised, while playing, that it's the house of the redguard couple (crown spies). But I don't know, if we should keep them.

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Post by berry » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:17 pm

Thanks worsas, you're inestimable. Glad to hear everything worked smooth.

I wonder, do you remember if going "evil" way you got "I killed B and G in self-defense. They should've been more sensible in choosing their victims blah blah" journal entry, ie. the entry finishing the quest? Last time I tried this quest, after uploading it, it didn't trigger for me for some reason (haven't changed that script then), so I wonder if the script is faulty or something else went wrong that time.
On Carnas' house. I realised, while playing, that it's the house of the redguard couple (crown spies). But I don't know, if we should keep them.
Ah, right, I see these two in planning document now, my bad... :? Personally, I like direction Yeti's heading with NPCs now, making more of Karthgad denizens Nords. Previously we've been trying to kill too many birds with one stone, trying to show how many cultures share these lands by placing representatives of each of them in this small Nord town; final impression was similar to TES IV, where you didn't have that many Imperials in a gods damned Imperial Province.

I'm not the one to call the shots here of course, but I think moving Carnas and Todwen from the town, for example to the inn a little bit north from it, can only make things look more natural.

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Post by Luxray » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:22 am

I'll start the questing of our mainfile by merging these 2 quests and the other few quests in Finished into the mainfile later today.
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Post by Luxray » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:29 pm

Did Carnas' house get nixed by Yeti in the latest mainfile? I can move the 'murder victim' to another house if that's the case; also if that is the case, any preference in which, else I'll pick one that looks unimportant.
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

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Post by berry » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:00 pm

Yeti renamed that cell, yes, currently two Nord women live there IIRC; it used to be the house between thane's place and the gate. And about the thane, his (her?) name should be adjusted as well in dialogues (only guards' dialogue, I think?), and more importantly the ID for dialogue filter (the same goes for Mining for the worms quest).

Good luck with this! I'm sorry I don't have much time to be really around nowadys, and I'm afraid it would be like this till April's end. :( I'll try to pop around, still.

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Post by Luxray » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:02 pm

You have done the hard work on these quest claims, it's not been too necessary to tweak much! Yes thank you for reminding me the Thane's name got changed, I need to rename the interior cell as well yet.
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