Asset: Ayleid Furniture

Model, texture and sound development of P:C
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Infragris
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Asset: Ayleid Furniture

Post by Infragris » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:11 am

This is arguably one of the highest priority for modeling right now. Without proper Ayleid furniture assets, we risk repeating Oblivion's mistake in presenting the Ayleid ruins as lifeless, artificial places.

Ayleid furniture should follow the basic design concepts of existing pieces like the Ayleid chain, lantern, chandelier, and welkynd holder. Where possible, furniture should have alternate broken or decayed versions. One possible concept is to have many things hanging on chains or suspended from the ceiling: if this is chosen, the existing chain set should be expanded with broken versions, different lengths, and hanging loops similar to the vanilla rope assets. Another idea is to give furniture a very low profile, similar to japanese furniture concepts: kneeling chairs, stuff like that.

Statics:
  • Bedframe
  • Bench (long and short version)
  • Scrollcase (the Ayleid mostly used scrolls, not books. similar in profile to a bookcase.)
  • Chair (low, more suitable for kneeling than sitting)
  • Throne
  • Table (two or three variations)
  • Altar
Containers:
  • Small chest (already in data)
  • Large chest (should be based on profile of small box)
  • Iron urn or vessel (?)
  • Closet or desk kind of thing (?)
Weird torture things:
  • Hooks (suspended on chains)
  • Cage (sort of similar to existing chandeliers. Suspended on chain. Just about large enough for one person. Bonus points for variations with skeleton inside)
  • Wailing wheel (spiked wheel, suspended on chains)
  • Iron tree (wrought metal tree, similar in design to the relief in some Ayleid doors. Stands on a stone or iron pedestal, similar to the welynd holder. Streaked with blackened gore: Ayleids used these to hang guts of, like a christmas tree)
  • Bone garden (low, broad pits, similar to the ash-pits in dunmer temples or some of the larger planters. Contains large mounds of ash and bones, arranged in patterns. Something like a zen garden, but with bones instead of stone)

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R-Zero
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Post by R-Zero » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:01 pm

Infragris wrote:One possible concept is to have many things hanging on chains or suspended from the ceiling: if this is chosen, the existing chain set should be expanded with broken versions, different lengths, and hanging loops similar to the vanilla rope assets.
A basic plan of Ayleid suspended table (black lines show where the chains would be):
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... ytable.jpg[/hsimg]

Why did we decide to go with octagonal shapes again? Wouldn't decagonal be more fitting?

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:04 pm

Ayleids are obsessed with the number eight, apparently.

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R-Zero
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Post by R-Zero » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:14 pm

Infragris wrote:Ayleids are obsessed with the number eight, apparently.
Not 10? I remember there being something about Ten Ancestors.

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worsas
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Post by worsas » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:48 pm

We already have the chandeliers and the lanterns that are suspended. I wonder, how much space there is for suspended furniture, although it is surely an interesting concept. I think what you could do for the beds would be a framing rack that holds a suspended bedrack inside of it.

I'm not sure, if I would actually attach any further welkynds to furniture, except maybe small embedded ones. It seems a bit weird to me to have single welkynds put onto welkynd stands, if they are otherwise attached to furniture or other objects. And overall, the stress on welkynds is a bit heavy, in my opinion.

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Post by R-Zero » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm

worsas wrote:We already have the chandeliers and the lanterns that are suspended. I wonder, how much space there is for suspended furniture, although it is surely an interesting concept.
That's why I want to make sure that most, if not all, furniture pieces are are suspended on a singular chain in the center - this way there's less chains cluttering the space and the sihlouettes of these pieces look less industrial and more elegant.
I think what you could do for the beds would be a framing rack that holds a suspended bedrack inside of it.
Good idea. I was thinking something like a cross of a hammock and a crib.
I'm not sure, if I would actually attach any further welkynds to furniture, except maybe small embedded ones. It seems a bit weird to me to have single welkynds put onto welkynd stands, if they are otherwise attached to furniture or other objects. And overall, the stress on welkynds is a bit heavy, in my opinion.
The one in the picture above is not a welkynd, but rather just a crytal-shaped metal counterweight.

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berry
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Post by berry » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:34 pm

Yuck. These sound wild-elfy as hell.
Infragris wrote:
  • Bone garden (low, broad pits, similar to the ash-pits in dunmer temples or some of the larger planters. Contains large mounds of ash and bones, arranged in patterns. Something like a zen garden, but with bones instead of stone)
There's a bone pile mesh (ex_sc_bonepile1_3.nif) and texture in The Doors of Oblivion, and RR's Holamayan had ash gardens. We could perhaps reuse those in combination.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/v2gd3nj.png[/hsimg]

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:02 pm

"Our enemies have undone me, and spread my body into hiding. In mockery of divine purpose, the Ayleids cut me into eighths, for they are obsessed with this number."
That's from the Adabal-a. The Ten Ancestors is as far as I know the only place where the Ayleids went decagonal. Their reliquary boxes are hexagonal, even. Presumably, the Ancestors were actual historical figures, so their number is not terribly significant.

Where possible, I think most furniture should get ground-based variations to avoid limiting the possibilities for interior modders. In fact, we should perhaps reserve suspension from the roof for a small number of key assets: I don't think it would make practical for every piece of furniture to be bolted in place. It would also start looking a bit silly in heavily cluttered areas.

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Post by R-Zero » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:36 pm

Infragris wrote:
"Our enemies have undone me, and spread my body into hiding. In mockery of divine purpose, the Ayleids cut me into eighths, for they are obsessed with this number."
That's from the Adabal-a. The Ten Ancestors is as far as I know the only place where the Ayleids went decagonal. Their reliquary boxes are hexagonal, even. Presumably, the Ancestors were actual historical figures, so their number is not terribly significant.
Ah, gotcha! Octagons do indeed make more sense then.
Where possible, I think most furniture should get ground-based variations to avoid limiting the possibilities for interior modders. In fact, we should perhaps reserve suspension from the roof for a small number of key assets: I don't think it would make practical for every piece of furniture to be bolted in place. It would also start looking a bit silly in heavily cluttered areas.
The way I see it, it's not really restrictive, just alternative - the fact that the furniture is suspended would let interior modders play with the entirety of 3rd dimension. I thought about the bolted down problem myself, and I think we can alleviate it by adding some unused suspension rings to the ceilings. And the cluttering won't really be bad if we use the minimum amount of chains for each furniture piece.

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Post by Saint_Jiub » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:54 pm

We could go with both, to be honest. Ayleid architecture has so much vertical space available that we could play with the medieval concept of the High Table - the city-state's Sorcerer-King and his/her guests of honor literally sit above everyone at tables and chairs suspended by chains, while the general company kneels on cushions or benches at low tables.

Something like these, made in wrought iron, would be a cool concept for the beds - going again with that avian motif, it's kind of reminiscent of a bird's nest.

[hsimg=]http://assets.inhabitots.com/wp-content ... 37x354.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://cdn.decoist.com/wp-content/uploa ... g-room.jpg[/hsimg]

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:09 pm

Yeah, that makes sense. My main concern is with making these believable and lived-in spaces: hanging everything from the ceiling is a nice idea in theory, but has the potential of being dissonant vis-a-vis the rest of Ayleid infrastructure. Actually connecting it to Ayleid social customs might help with that.

About the beds: how about we go with a more coffin/sarcophagus shape? Hanging from chains or acting as the centerpiece in a room, it would be ambiguous wheter these were some kind of punishment device or if the Ayleid just slept that way.

@R-Zero: don't forget SWG's star clouds we discussed on discord.

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Post by R-Zero » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:10 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote:We could go with both, to be honest. Ayleid architecture has so much vertical space available that we could play with the medieval concept of the High Table - the city-state's Sorcerer-King and his/her guests of honor literally sit above everyone at tables and chairs suspended by chains, while the general company kneels on cushions or benches at low tables.
Infragris wrote:Yeah, that makes sense. My main concern is with making these believable and lived-in spaces: hanging everything from the ceiling is a nice idea in theory, but has the potential of being dissonant vis-a-vis the rest of Ayleid infrastructure. Actually connecting it to Ayleid social customs might help with that.
This a nice idea too. Though I remember there being a talk here about how rich-class Ayleid items survived in unproportional numbers because of quality of their material and craft - so I thought that having more suspended furniture would fit in this too.
Saint_Jiub wrote: Something like these, made in wrought iron, would be a cool concept for the beds - going again with that avian motif, it's kind of reminiscent of a bird's nest.
Infragris wrote: About the beds: how about we go with a more coffin/sarcophagus shape? Hanging from chains or acting as the centerpiece in a room, it would be ambiguous wheter these were some kind of punishment device or if the Ayleid just slept that way.
Between these two Ideas I would prefer the second one a bit - if only because it would allow for better space management. We could even have those sarcobeds be found in 2 variations - horizontal and vertical ones:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... phagus.png[/hsimg]
(which are essentially the same, just with the chains fixed in different positions)
Saint_Jiub wrote:@R-Zero: don't forget SWG's star clouds we discussed on discord.
My memory fails me here, sadly - I remember that talk, but hazily. Can you elaborate on this idea here, while we're at it?

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Post by Infragris » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:33 pm

The idea was to use SWG's Improved Propylon Particles as the base for an ambience enhancer. They could be placed around orreries or other magical instruments - or just about anywhere significant, really. Holographic starfields so that the Ayleids could stargaze even in their underground sanctuaries. They would need to be color-corrected to follow/contrast with the Ayleid aesthetic. I think SWG gave permission to modify the assets, but you could double-check with her if you want to make sure.

EDIT: welp

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Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:19 am

I found this on my dropbox, pretty sure I retextured this from one of the MJY resource packs, is it something that would be useful for our purposes? I could see it having some high end loot displayed on it, maybe?

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/o3CTRnn.png[/hsimg]

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Post by Infragris » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:09 am

It would have to be reworked to follow Ayleid sensibilities (and quality standards, I know that resource and it requires a bit of cleaning). I'm not really sure if we want to have figurative statues for the Ayleid? If we do they should have something that sets them apart, I think.

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Post by R-Zero » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:24 pm

Infragris wrote:The idea was to use SWG's Improved Propylon Particles as the base for an ambience enhancer. They could be placed around orreries or other magical instruments - or just about anywhere significant, really. Holographic starfields so that the Ayleids could stargaze even in their underground sanctuaries. They would need to be color-corrected to follow/contrast with the Ayleid aesthetic.
Speaking of this, I recently had an alternative idea for implementation of these (not for the reasons you might think of, mind you). Basically, what about we make a sort of preudo-skybox in the shape of night sky with all the constellations and nebulas and set its zbuffer property in such a way that the stars would shrine through the ceiling? Like this:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... 01.149.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... estars.jpg[/hsimg]
(I use the plates here only to demonstrate the mechanics)

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Post by berry » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:38 pm

R-Zero wrote:snip
Wow, loving that :o Could you upload that proof of concept model, please? I'm curious how it looks like in-game.

Maybe let's script such skybox to rotate at the slowest pace literally, to enhance the impression of oblivious, alluring star-gazing? Some of these stars can be billboard meshes too, so they'd "rotate" with PC, like they are observing the mortal beneath them in response, you know, almost Nietzsche style?

edit: also: a magical buzzing sound. But eh, I have a soft spot for these :P

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Post by R-Zero » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:50 pm

berry wrote: Wow, loving that :o Could you upload that proof of concept model, please? I'm curious how it looks like in-game.

Maybe let's script such skybox to rotate at the slowest pace literally, to enhance the impression of oblivious, alluring star-gazing? Some of these stars can be billboard meshes too, so they'd "rotate" with PC, like they are observing the mortal beneath them in response, you know, almost Nietzsche style?

edit: also: a magical buzzing sound. But eh, I have a soft spot for these :P
Sure!
Stars but actually Plates.rar
(3.05 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Billboard nodes would work just fine, mayme even better depending on how this zbuffered object would interact with other alphaed meshes. This would need to be tested more extensively.

The main point of this alternative take is that according to this text by MK, "all stars are equidistant from Nirn" and as such it would make less sense to portrait them by using holograms. Plane(t)s, on the other hand...

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Post by Infragris » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:21 pm

It would b impressive if you could pull it off, but it also feels like something that can only be used in very specific, constrained circumstances - it could potentially come across as a texture bug.

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Post by R-Zero » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:40 pm

Infragris wrote:It would b impressive if you could pull it off, but it also feels like something that can only be used in very specific, constrained circumstances - it could potentially come across as a texture bug.
Yeah I guess it would be best if we had a sort of circular domed room, like sort of a planetarium, for this.


UPD:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... -Stars.jpg[/hsimg]

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Post by R-Zero » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:51 am

Okay, here's a take on Ayleid sleeping cage/sarcophagus:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... g_cage.jpg[/hsimg]
Partially inspired by cages used for gibbeting. Consists of 2 parts - the cage itself and a door that slides aside rotating on a central axis pivot points. The door could be a separate object - "Door" for the cases we would want them to be openable by Player (dat immersion!) or a "Static" for those stuck in their position after so many years.
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... _cage2.jpg[/hsimg]
The cages were originally lined up with soft betting material (silk or bird down or whateved Ayleids did use) but nowadays only ancient unidentifiable fragmental rags remain. The rotating door could be lined with cracked glass.
The Ayleid nobility would sleep in these in vertical position, fixing themselves with belts or straps or, in case of the most prominent sorcerers, long-lasting Levitation magic.
We could even feature Ayleid skeletons still stuck in some of these.

What do you think, guys?

UPD:
Here's it with the textures:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... yyleid.jpg[/hsimg]

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Post by worsas » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:58 pm

I like it.

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Post by Infragris » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:47 pm

Looks great. Could you do a version with spikes and stuff on the inside? For reasons.

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Post by worsas » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:39 am

Infragris wrote:Looks great. Could you do a version with spikes and stuff on the inside? For reasons.
If they are intended as sleeping cabins, we should avoid making them look like torture cages. The spikeless variant will just like a lesser version of it in the end and the whole concept of a spiked cage seems too coarse and simple for Ayleids, imo.

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Post by R-Zero » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:26 pm

Finally planned out the basic shape of Ayleid hanging chair after what felt like countless iterations: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... ychair.jpg I guess I just had to actually look at existing Ayleid meshes instead of getting fixated on octagons.

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Post by Saint_Jiub » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:53 pm

To be honest, I'm not sure this design works - because the chain is offset to the left, the chair would hang at an angle. It either needs to have a second chain supporting the other side, or else the chain needs to hang in the middle.

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Post by R-Zero » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:20 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote:because the chain is offset to the left, the chair would hang at an angle
It's not :) Sorry for the above picture not being clear about it. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... chair2.jpg

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Post by worsas » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:04 pm

I'm fine with that proposed chair design. I slowly start to see this concept of suspended furniture working.

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Post by R-Zero » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:07 pm

First actual versions of suspended ayleid furniture (a table and a chair), plus chain segments of different lengths to allow variation in vertical position. https://www.dropbox.com/s/24ithttl28qis ... y.jpg?dl=1 So far, as you can see, furniture pieces use a single chan in the center, which helps to keep cluttering to a minimum.
Versions with slow rotation, as if because of wind, will follow. This, coupled with subtle chain rattle sound emitters, would make for a great atmosphere, I think.

I've been reminded that ground-based versions of this furniture are needed, so here's an idea: tall chairs/tables/etc on a single leg: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dode7rvdhvp3u ... d.jpg?dl=1 (sorry for a horrible drawing)

These single-leg tall furniture pieces would in a sense "mirror" the suspended ones: the former raise from the ground on a single support, the latter descend from the ceiling on a single support too. The above average height of "single-legs" would play into the sense of verticality of Ayleid interiors and subtly reinforce the avian theme. The floor layer would have been reserved to servants and slaves back in the day and have a somewhat forest-like appearance with all the vertical legs around. To make this kind of furniture more realistic, we could also include a type of small ladders laying around, like maybe those seen here (at 22:46)

In all honesty, I'd prefer if we shied away from conventional furniture designs - our Ayleid tileset looks very stereotypically "elven" now, with all the arches, tall ceilings and white stone - not a lot of things convey the "this is where ancient sadistic birdaboo slaver elves lived!". Perhaps unusual movables would help to better characterize the Wild Elves and make them seem more like an outlandish, alien culture of old.

Thoughts?

(Also, screw dropbox for breaking all the image links.)

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Post by roerich » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:12 am

My two drakes:

I must say as I wrote on Discord. I don't care much for the idea of single legged tall furniture pieces. Just having four or three legs is fine by me, I don't think there's any other elegant solutions. The design of the legs can be weirded up, bird legs, curious shapes, whatever. Just as long as there's a coherence to the set. In general I think having the suspended furniture as an asset to use in some rooms is fine, but it's also very limiting for interior modders. There can also be a lot of combinations between floor versions and suspended versions, like I'd like to use the suspended table with floor version chairs a lot, I think it'd look awesome combined.

If we only had suspended furniture, I think these interiors would end up funny looking and horrible to explore for the player, having to rely on levitation constantly (which doesn't work very well indoors). Occasional suspended furniture is fine to break the 'mundane', or to continue the avian theme from the feathers and birdlike appearances, but it shouldn't end up as the furniture used in every room. Like infragris put it, it would end up looking a bit silly in well cluttered rooms. It also won't work perfectly with the very squarish, symmetrical layout of the Ayleid ruin set in general. If we were to have these vertical, weird, suspended furniture rooms everywhere, the ruins should have been much more organic, circular and irregular in shape.

I think the weirdness of Ayleids will need to be represented in some other way. Instead of trying to weird up regular furniture like chairs and tables, why not instead think of unconvential furniture? Like the weird torture things Infragris suggested. Upright cage-beds is a good example of this. Another could be a nest-like 'bowl chair' for lounging and meditation. http://i.imgur.com/OpTe1yd.png
Would be easy to make in suspended as well as floor versions. In general, just think of furniture with completely alien functions related to Ayleid culture. The furniture in Infragris' inital list is also needed of course, and should be finished first - in suspended (when making sense) and floor versions.

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