Amulets, Belts and Rings

Model, texture and sound development of P:C
arrianas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by arrianas » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:02 am

I really like the idea of key rings, and I hope it get implemented.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:47 am

Okay, here's what I made:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... /rings.jpg[/hsimg]
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... 0rings.rar


Two variations of Key Rings. (Common tier)
A Colovian Diamond ring in three colors - the gem receives its color from the material settings, not the texture, so it's very easy to adjust it. (Expensive tier)
A Nibenese Mothwing ring. (Expensive tier)
Icons will follow.

Textures are DTX1 .dds 128px, ~11kb each versus Vanilla .tga 64px, ~16 kb (vanilla dds ring textures are broken)
Meshes are of variable size, 11 to 16 kb versus Vanilla 4 to 8 kb

Notes about the implementation of Key Rings:
1. To set the ring as a key, you need first to assign some dummy misc item as the door's key, then open your esp file in MW Enchanted Editor or any comparable software, go to CELL subrecords, then to your cell, find the KNAM subrecord and replace it with an ID of the ring:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... %20key.jpg[/hsimg]
2. If enchanted, the ring stops functioning as a key (due to the fact that its ID changes), so key rings need to either be pre-enchanted or have their enchantment capacity set to 0.
3. NPCs will automatically equip these rings, making them unable to be pickpocketed (which is kinda one of the reasons people would use these). If you want to make the ring pickpocketable, all you need to do is to add two more expensive (even if by 1 gold) rings in NPC's inventory. This can even be done through some sort of Thieves Guild quest (make a gift to the pickpotee to gain access to this ring without killing them).

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vrolok
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by vrolok » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:11 am

Wow, these are great! :shock: Really are!
The key rings don't look common to me, more like ancient, so they could open up some really old things. I think that could be great theme for Nibenay IMO
I only think to slightly adjust gold texture on the rings, right now they remind me of Dwemer metal, but apart from that, it's really awesome :?

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:43 am

vrolok wrote:Wow, these are great! :shock: Really are!
The key rings don't look common to me, more like ancient, so they could open up some really old things. I think that could be great theme for Nibenay IMO
Thanks! Well, it's ultimately up to planners, level designers and quest writers how to use them exactly, I'm just pitching the idea.
I only think to slightly adjust gold texture on the rings, right now they remind me of Dwemer metal, but apart from that, it's really awesome :?
Yeah, you're right. How about this one, a bit less saturated?
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... ewring.png[/hsimg]

arrianas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by arrianas » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:19 am

I love your idea for a thieves guild quest, that is actually brilliant.

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:42 am

These are really nice-looking so far, R-Zero. The Gold now looks more like bronze to me, but I don't mind it that. Unless someone speaks up against it, I'll include these with the next data version. Thankýou for your effort on this end. :)

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:15 am

worsas wrote:These are really nice-looking so far, R-Zero. The Gold now looks more like bronze to me, but I don't mind it that. Unless someone speaks up against it, I'll include these with the next data version. Thankýou for your effort on this end. :)
No problem. Can I get a Modder status now? :D I promise there's more where that came from.
From what I understand, the development is going from west to east, so Colovian stuff is of much higher priority, right? I want to try the studded ring design next if so.
Ah, and here's the altered texture:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... gld_01.dds
arrianas wrote:I love your idea for a thieves guild quest, that is actually brilliant.
No, that's a ruby :D

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TerrifyingDaedricFoe
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:16 pm

R-Zero wrote:3. NPCs will automatically equip these rings, making them unable to be pickpocketed (which is kinda one of the reasons people would use these). If you want to make the ring pickpocketable, all you need to do is to add two more expensive (even if by 1 gold) rings in NPC's inventory. This can even be done through some sort of Thieves Guild quest (make a gift to the pickpotee to gain access to this ring without killing them).
I like the ring-key concept, but this quest idea is just silly. The only reason it works is game mechanics and it makes zero-sense from an in-universe perspective.

"Thank you for this kind gift of a ring. Unfortunately I am already wearing two rings and it is physically impossible for me to wear a third, even though I have eight fingers and two thumbs, and I could probably wear multiple rings on the same finger. Therefore I will have to take off this ring-key, which although it has a low intrinsic value secures the safety of my more valuable possessions, and place it insecurely in my pocket where it is vulnerable to theft. I couldn't take off the other ring I am wearing because I am a fashion slave and would rather be dead than not show off the two most valuable rings I currently have on my person."

We shouldn't design quests to so explicitly and obviously reveal the limits and problems of game mechanics.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:28 pm

Yeah, now that you put it this way, it does sound silly. Perhaps there can be another way to make the rings pickpocketable under certain conditions? I don't know, making the owner's hands very greasy through some elaborate scheme, and then just unequipping it through script? Sorry I'm throwing out stupid suggestions :) the idea of tying this new mechanic with Thieves Guild at least in some way just seems too tasty.

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:38 pm

Can I get a Modder status now?
Sure.

As long as people don't post a showcase, it is usually assumed that they only want to do an occasional contribution without being involved with the project that much. But you surely have proved to have the abilities required by now.

I've been as deliberate as promoting you now. Welcome to the team, mate!

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:48 pm

Thanks!
worsas wrote: As long as people don't post a showcase, it is usually assumed that they only want to do an occasional contribution without being involved with the project that much.
Well yeah, I thought these things could serve as one.

Anyhow, does anybody have any thoughts on how to better plan or determine the tier of a clothing piece? Common tier is pretty self-explanatory - simple stuff without gems and such, but how to distinguish Expensive/Extravagant/Exquisite? Number of gems? Size? Elaborateness?

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:03 pm

Anyhow, does anybody have any thoughts on how to better plan or determine the tier of a clothing piece?
Subjective judgement has been our friend so far, sometimes mixed with the need of filling up gaps of expensive garment. There are some pieces of expensive clothing in both projects that, in other circumstances, might be considered common clothing. I have just recently uploaded a few fixes for supposedly expensive skyrim clothing to address this problem.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:17 pm

worsas wrote: Subjective judgement has been our friend so far, sometimes mixed with the need of filling up gaps of expensive garment. There are some pieces of expensive clothing in both projects that, in other circumstances, might be considered common clothing. I have just recently uploaded a few fixes for supposedly expensive skyrim clothing to address this problem.
Gotcha.
Another thing I wanted to ask was the quantity of items in each type. In vanilla Morrowind it's a quite consistent 5-3-2-1 distribution between Common, Expensive, Extravagant and Exquisite in all clothes (especially Amulets, Rings, Belts, Skirts and Shoes). Robes, Pants etc. have more variations due to having House- and tribe-specific sub-variants.
Should the same distribution carry over to P:C?

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vrolok
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by vrolok » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:32 pm

I think that only way to steal such a key should be by killing its owner, just to show why they are used. And we should have dialogues written about it to explain it even further. I mean, a master pickpocketer from Skyrim with all the perks might be able to pull it off, but I think it's not necessary in our case.

Congrats on promotion! Would love to see what else can you do :D

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:29 am

Another thing I wanted to ask was the quantity of items in each type. In vanilla Morrowind it's a quite consistent 5-3-2-1 distribution between Common, Expensive, Extravagant and Exquisite in all clothes (especially Amulets, Rings, Belts, Skirts and Shoes). Robes, Pants etc. have more variations due to having House- and tribe-specific sub-variants.
Poor clothing is usually less specific in look than the more ornate one. Therefore, in the long run there should probably be about as many expensive pieces of clothing as there are common ones.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:43 am

vrolok wrote:I think that only way to steal such a key should be by killing its owner
...This is actually a great concept that can have a lot of implications in the lore and culture.
Congrats on promotion! Would love to see what else can you do :D
Thanks!
worsas wrote: Poor clothing is usually less specific in look than the more ornate one. Therefore, in the long run there should probably be about as many expensive pieces of clothing as there are common ones.
Understood.
By the way, the imperial-styled clothing from vanilla Morrowind is being reused, right?

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:01 am

By the way, the imperial-styled clothing from vanilla Morrowind is being reused, right?
Yes, as far as I'm aware some of the vanilla clothes are being used on Stirk-npcs and I assume it will be no different for future settlements.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:00 am

Here are some thoughts on the colovian ring design:

1. Common studded ring:
[hsimg=]http://www.dudinenyc.com/Websites/dudin ... 266666.JPG[/hsimg]
2. Expensive studded ring: same design as above but more ornate and the studs are replaced with small gems.
3. Extravagant studded ring: a double-finger ring reminiscent of "gangsta rings":
[hsimg=]https://www.mooncostumes.com/image/3090[/hsimg]
and brass knuckles/caestus. The studs are replaced with moderately-sided gems.

Rings of these designs are traditionally enchanted with "Horny Fist" and "Knuckle Luck" enchantments.

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:52 pm

Your plans for the studded rings sound great to me. Regarding two-finger rings... why not?

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vrolok
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by vrolok » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:52 pm

Yay! Studs for everyone :D We really need to make some lore explanation why studs are so popular in Colovia, but I do like the ring idea.

Also, is it racist to think that double-finger rings are more Redguard theme, rather than Imperial? :lol: Still could be very cool

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:45 am

vrolok wrote:Yay! Studs for everyone :D We really need to make some lore explanation why studs are so popular in Colovia, but I do like the ring idea.
Also, is it racist to think that double-finger rings are more Redguard theme, rather than Imperial? :lol: Still could be very cool
Well, because Colovians are studs themselves, duh :D
Anything can be racist nowadays if you put a right spin on it. Anyway, despite being the token black race of the setting they're much closer to Ottomans and Moors than African Americans. I chose this type of ring because it would reflect Colovians' martial culture, in my opinion.

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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by vrolok » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:51 am

Anything can be racist nowadays if you put a right spin on it. Anyway, despite being the token black race of the setting they're much closer to Ottomans and Moors than African Americans.
Yeah, I know about their culture, still not sure about the ring though. I guess it's fine, but you can also check out some concepts I've uploaded for Colovian rings, which should fit the place rather nicely.

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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by arrianas » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:58 am

I think studded rings should be Colovian, but multi-fingered rings should be Nibenese,

On a side note, about the Thieves Guild quests, maybe you could place a trap that somehow cuts the target's finger off.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:33 am

arrianas wrote:I think studded rings should be Colovian, but multi-fingered rings should be Nibenese
I wanted to give Nibeneans double-fingered rings too, but so they would be thin and elegant, unlike solid and sturdy Colovian ones:
[hsimg=]http://www.nancyedwards.com/Site/moth_d ... 20back.jpg[/hsimg]

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:09 am

Yay! Studs for everyone :D We really need to make some lore explanation why studs are so popular in Colovia, but I do like the ring idea.
The stuts aren't such a dominant feature at all yet that a lore explanation would be required for them. But I hope that a certain recurrence will give a feeling of continuity there.

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:23 pm

Today I learned Blender's handling of vertex color is greaves on head retarded.

Is this one okay?
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... 20ring.png[/hsimg]

I also came over some pictures of "coin necklaces". Amulets? I can picture Imperials, especially Zenitharians, collecting rare coins and using them this way.
[hsimg=]http://www.ancientresource.com/images/j ... cb2119.jpg[/hsimg]

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worsas
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by worsas » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:24 pm

Is this one okay?
I like it. At the first moment I was worrying a bit about the lack of metallicity in this large view. But from some distance the metal effect is there. In case of doubt, you could strengthen the highlight a bit more, unless this is a vanilla texture, in which case feel free to disregard me. Would it be a stretch to provide a second variant of this same ring with only a few details changed? That stut ring could really work as an iconic ring design used by simple Colovian folks.

A coin amulet idea seems good to me. Feels very imperial (or roman, at least).

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:51 pm

worsas wrote: I like it. At the first moment I was worrying a bit about the lack of metallicity in this large view. But from some distance the metal effect is there. In case of doubt, you could strengthen the highlight a bit more, unless this is a vanilla texture, in which case feel free to disregard me. Would it be a stretch to provide a second variant of this same ring with only a few details changed? That stut ring could really work as an iconic ring design used by simple Colovian folks.
The highlight is indeed pretty weak, but that's because I have some doubts as to if to use the environment effect instead or no. There are reflection textures in the PC data, so I take it using these would be okay?
The variations wouldn't be a problem. I also have a sort of a cross between a signet ring and this one in mind.

Speaking of signets, I must find some simple stamp designs to use in those, not county or religion-specific. Saint Jiub's coat-of-arms textures could be used as a base for the expensive ones, but what about the common?

Now that I think of it, there was another jewelry item type I wanted to ask about - the bracelets. They could be implemented as armor bracers, like the Slave Bracers in Morrowind are. I'm asking it mainly because they could use designs similar to those of the rings.

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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by Saint_Jiub » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:34 pm

Did somebody say rare coins?

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/Lfrcotu.png[/hsimg]

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R-Zero
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Re: Amulets, Belts and Rings

Post by R-Zero » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:45 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote:Did somebody say rare coins?
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about - the old coins from previous eras! These two are of Alessian and Reman ages, I assume?

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