The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

View and discuss completed claims
User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Kilkreath Mountains
Contact:

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Scamp » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:33 pm

Claim looks fantastic in these overview shots. Still not sure if I like your tower-rock constructions... but I guess they belong to the region concept now :P

Boulder-esque edges sound good, especially for transition purposes next to the giant mesa. Good call.

Feel free to add more cells as you see fit (as long as they belong to areas that haven't been "recently" worked on by either Worsas or myself) - we're going to have to figure out how to put it all together at some point anyway.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:10 pm

Thanks for your appreciation, I'm glad you like it. 8-)

Worsas, thank you for finding time to check it in-game, I appreciate it. Right now I'm up to dealing with the issues you mentioned; cool suggestions, I like the barrow idea especially. There are some WIP CS shots below. I'll update the file within a week or so, when there's more to show.
worsas wrote:I have not come across your goblin cave so far, but judging from your screenshots it is one of the most amazing cave entrances I have seen. Make sure that there is a way to find and get to the entrance without boosting acrobatics or using levitation. ;)
Well, once you get there, try not to be too harsh; this area is still a work in progress and I know there are at least two stalag-like In_Rocks you are bound to dislike there ;) with all seriousness though, thanks for all the feedback.
Scamp wrote:Feel free to add more cells as you see fit (as long as they belong to areas that haven't been "recently" worked on by either Worsas or myself) - we're going to have to figure out how to put it all together at some point anyway.
worsas wrote:I'd say go ahead with including the two cells, you mentioned above. It might even make sense, if you did a complete overhaul of the Druadach Highlands to accomodate to your style, once you have your rock issues sorted out.
To be honest, I considered grabbing few more cells from ref.esp to add some trees to them, in the spots that feel empty now, with overall more foresty feel in the area. I was thinking about overhauling to some extent my previous claim as well. That being said, this claim already feels overwhelmingly huge, I don't want to take upon myself any more obligations until I'm dealt with it. Plus I feel like I need a break from big-scale exterior modding. I'm fine with someone else grabbing my previous claim for some changes whatsoever in the meantime. :) I'll be the last one to argue it doesn't need them.

Barrow from the outside
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/CK4Iclz.jpg[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/dQ4HZSq.jpg[/hsimg]

New concept for cliffs' range end
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/MVqBVC7.jpg[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/pYzGJaZ.jpg[/hsimg]

New side-cliff by the village (the one with two pine trees)
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/o5TEAug.jpg[/hsimg]

Overview
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/9u0og5D.jpg[/hsimg]

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Kilkreath Mountains
Contact:

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Scamp » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:00 am

I took a look at the actual file in the CS now. Awesome!

There's but one thing I dislike, but I can't quite put my finger on it. The trees surrounding the village don't seem right to me - somehow they don't fit the surrounding flora density/overall style very well, or their arrangement looks unnatural. I'd try either more trees to fit the nearby forest, which is quite dense, or significantly less trees. Generally it seems like there's too many pines up there, too.

Maybe you could try some of these ideas in a separate copy of the file for me?

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:00 am

I would honestly add more trees to the neighboring grassland instead of removing them from the village. In the region design we discussed the Druadach Highlands were intended to be very, very bushy so it is a bit more different from the purely grassy Aldkarth Lowlands. If there are a few more trees, it won't look wrong. But most importantly we wanted the village to be hidden, didn't we?

Berry, make sure to have another look at the container plants intended to be used per region. The persarine and the honey lilly we intended to keep exclusive to Vorndgad Forest and Aldkarth Lowlands. Upon crossing the region borders, even with a transition zone, the player shouldn't encounter the container plants of the previous region anymore. I know that there are some honey lillies in the area previously worked on by me. they need to be removed aswell to stress regional differences better. Also, don't forget to aim for a roughly consistent container plant count per cell in accordance with your previous claim.

Third-last post should reflect our current distribution of container plant types. Maybe edit your own region design description to account for this:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=222" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Scamp
P:C Council Member
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm
Location: Kilkreath Mountains
Contact:

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Scamp » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:56 am

worsas wrote:[...]But most importantly we wanted the village to be hidden, didn't we?[...]
Putting the village on top of the cliffside is quite contrary to making the village hidden, I'd have placed it in a valley with dense forests for that purpose. But I shall not trash-talk work weeks after initial discussion, which is a mistake that for some reason keeps coming up in these projects.

Focusing more on the actual problem at hand - it looks odd, sort of like the inhabitants planted additional trees in a weird pattern a long while ago. I would at least like to see more of the lush trees up there and 2-3 pines less. Placing more trees overall in the surrounding areas might help (as you have suggested) make it seem less apparent that there are somehow more trees up the hill than there are down in the valleys.

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by roerich » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:23 am

How old is this village supposed to be? Either way it could have been placed on the clifftop in order to be more protected against the warbands from east and west, using the Reach as their battleground.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:30 am

Overhaul continues. bah, it's like there's more and more work to get done on this :P
Scamp wrote:There's but one thing I dislike, but I can't quite put my finger on it. The trees surrounding the village don't seem right to me - somehow they don't fit the surrounding flora density/overall style very well, or their arrangement looks unnatural. I'd try either more trees to fit the nearby forest, which is quite dense, or significantly less trees. Generally it seems like there's too many pines up there, too.

Maybe you could try some of these ideas in a separate copy of the file for me?
I tried to, but I ended incorporating this ideas in the main file, giving the village a small redo. I think it looks much more realistic now, I will eventually get down putting more trees around the village cliff, so I think that should nail it. Still, I can remove some more trees and bake that separate esp for you if you wish, no problem.
worsas wrote: The persarine and the honey lilly we intended to keep exclusive to Vorndgad Forest and Aldkarth Lowlands. Upon crossing the region borders, even with a transition zone, the player shouldn't encounter the container plants of the previous region anymore.
As for the plants by the village, I imagined the matriarch to be quite a herbalist (descending from the tribe of forest folks and so on), so she can maintain persarine, taragetis and honey lilly there for sacral meanings and her alchemical needs. I can replace them with some Druadach native plant, though. I will remove those plants found outside the village.
worsas wrote:Third-last post should reflect our current distribution of container plant types. Maybe edit your own region design description to account for this:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=222
Sure, I'll try to give it a go in a forthcoming week.
roerich wrote:How old is this village supposed to be? Either way it could have been placed on the clifftop in order to be more protected against the warbands from east and west, using the Reach as their battleground.
Well, I tried to wrote down the vision I had while working on the village (and other interiors of this claim), so that can lighten up some things. I believe that cliff could have been used as a hiding place for long ages, but the village in current form dates back to the times of Bend'r-mahk war.

Village

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/S5vU1uA.png[/hsimg]

Size: Small (7 interiors )
Population: 11 (7 Bretons, 3 Orcs, 1 Redguard).
Tribal identity: Ennflaith
Wealth: High
Religiousness: High
Main deities: Trinimac, Mara
Hostility: Low. Maintains stable, but far from warm, trade-based relationship with the Bear Clan
Economics: Trade (honey, furs, leather, ingredients, goat milk products) - serves as a middleman between other, more isolated tribes [Western Canyon village comes to mind] and the Bear Clan; Hunting; Pasturage (goats); Banditry? (with usage of local goblins?)
Other distinguishing features: Orsimer population; centre of Trinimac cult; Nova Orsinium connections

Permanent residents:

1 - The Big House

A matriarch - Breton. well-respected across the hills witch in her fifties. Of notable magical power and sphere of influence; machiavellian personality. Important persona on the local political scene, "Barenziah of Druadach Highlands". Months-old gossip says she's really close to achieving the inner circle in the hags' hierarchy. Has unhealthy admiration for warlord Gortwog and Nova Orsinium, keeps some letters he send her in response to her messages as relics, even though there's nothing of real importance written in them (mostly kind "That's a good idea, thanks", "Thank you for your compliments" etc). She daydreams about creating (and then co-leading) united Orcs-Reachmen nation and wouldn't hestitate commencing bloody revolt when she feels that dream is possible; on the outside though she remains cold and sharp. That whole raving fascination for the Orcs can be the thing holding back her Hagraven transformation.

A husband - Breton. retired travelling merchant married to the matriarch, slightly older than his wife. Officialy old and harmless, well hidden in his wife's throne's shade, this man in fact is the main reason the tribe went through the Bend'r-mahk war mostly unharmed and begun to thrive once it was over. The merchant used his contacts and his wit to assist his wife in leading the tribe, making deals and truces with the commanders of either side when it was profitable, only to backstab them later and go into hiding, fighting partisan war. Eventualy the tribe sided with winning Nords, leading them through the cliffy paths to take Dragonstar by surprise. In the postbellum reality, when the tribe ended claiming the Village Cliff for living, he used his old contacts and the money from looting to estabilish trade relations with Karthgad and Dragonstar, what brings good profit to this day. Despite all of that, he accepts his position as husband to the chief. He is more clever and meaningful than it seems, yes, but by no means he can be considered to be the grey eminence ruling the village. Offers Mercantile training?

In spite of the fact that these two had been married to each other even before the war started, there have never been much (or any love) between them. They both perceived the marriage as a political contract that can strenghten their position in Reachmen's hierarchy (in which it succeeded indeed). Still, they conceived and upbrought a son (or two?), who runs a small trade estabilishment in deserted Dragonstar, serving as a spy for Hagravens as well.

2 - The small house

An apprentice - Breton. Young woman from another tribe. Shows some magical potential, sent here to learn witch's trade by the feet of the matriarch. She's having some hard time, as I imagine the matriarch must be rather bitchy (and training to be a witch among the folks of the Reach cannot by an easy thing by default I bet). Well respected by the rest of the tribesmen, though, on account of being a hag in spe.

3 - Shaman's yurt

A shaman - Orc. Orcish priest of Trinimac estabilished in this village some months ago by Gortwog himself. Technically the head of Trinimac cult for trans-Dragonstar Reach, though it doesn't require him to be very high in general "church's" hierarchy. I bet he should be quite young, yet talented and promising. Honestly, he doesn't bear much power nowadays, as most of local orcs are hostile towards him, due to their remaining faith in Malacath [as our "Peoples of the Reach" book states]. The matriarch really values his opinion and relies on his counsel more and more often, what wasn't left unnoticed by the Hagravens. The shaman is a clever and careful man, keeping both of his feet on the ground. For now he's mostly devoted himself to gathering inteligence data, as one of many Gortwog's spies set around the Orsinium. I bet some of more aggresive Reachmen around the hills hate this guy, both for the influence he's slowly reaching and for the fact he's supposed to teach THEM about their own god.

4 - Yurt

Orc. Just your average orcish hunter/commoner.

5, 6 - Commoner's houses.

I wanted them to be occupied by mixed couples:
Orc - Breton
Redguard - Breton
I imagined that Redguard guy/gal could be a Bend'r-mahk veteran, forcefully recruted in the Hammerfell's ranks in his/her teen years. [Or just some more recent deserter, it wouldn't make sense to have so many folks that old here] The Redguard found peace in this village, now he/she is just one the tribesmen.
Still, I'm not sure abour that Orsimer-Breton couple; acceptance for it may be a cool way to highlight Reachmen's bizarreness (seeing how other cultures see the concept ), but it's something to be approached carefully. We can always just snap that mer for another Breton.

7 - Hunter/huntress house

Breton. No real thoughts on him/her

Some other tribesmen of this tribe could be found as merchants/soldiers of fortune/adventurers around the Reach. Overall, the way I see it, for the long ages this tribe had lived as forest-concealed mystical gathereres, of no real power among the tribes, Ahemmusa-style. Just recently the tables turned, and in the postbellum reality these folks earned themself some real significance. They've been cleverly playing their cards right ever since.

Barrow

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/CK4Iclz.jpg[/hsimg]

I'm trying to make it remind Scamp's mesa barrow in style, as these two were likely founded roughly in the same time. It will be much less grand, though, and more concealed - perhaps it served as a final rest place to just one lesser leader/war hero?
As this tomb lies in hard hit and eventful area, it had been devastated for ages even before the war started. During the Bend'r-mahk small Redguard war-team stationed here, it eventually got wiped out by the Nords. Their corpses dots this place to this day.
I was thinking we could have a questgiver (Arkay priest? Jarla's clerk?) in Dragonstar that would task the player with clearing this barrow out of the undeads and lead a construction crew with a priest there, so they revive this place as a resting side for now Nordic city of Dragonstar.

Goblin cave

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/Y4SoLZC.png[/hsimg]

I thought it would be cool to make it lead through the cliff as far down as to the Western Canyon and have another exit there; there is a cave already roughly in the same line with it in -112, 17. It could be a passage used by the Reachmen, as those two villages would likely be able to keep goblins in line.

Resistance hideout

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/zBPqNQa.png[/hsimg]

I think it is well hidden enough to act as a hiding place for Redguard insurectionists, but it can be some bandit cave or whatever, really.

Ruined cave

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/yckm3fy.png[/hsimg]

Yet another testimony of Bend'r-mahk conflict. Possibly some more Hammerfell forces used to station here. The doors have noPickup script on them, so this place isn't really an interior.
Attachments
Sky_claim_berr #2.ESP
(2.29 MiB) Downloaded 13 times

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:14 pm

Overhaul continues. bah, it's like there's more and more work to get done on this :P
We've been torturing you for a while, I guess. But you have been making some gorgeous landscaping since your previous update. I love to be looking at what you did with the covered rocks on top of the cliffs or the little dirt patch framed by smaller rocks. I have yet to find something I really dislike about your latest file. How do you feel about it yourself?
As for the plants by the village, I imagined the matriarch to be quite a herbalist (descending from the tribe of forest folks and so on), so she can maintain persarine, taragetis and honey lilly there for sacral meanings and her alchemical needs. I can replace them with some Druadach native plant, though. I will remove those plants found outside the village.
Just the wild-growing ones need to match the region concept, of course. Don't worry about the garden. :mrgreen:

Thankyou for reworking the barrow entrance and adding the dirt path. Amazing stuff.

I think your current claim can safely act as reference for the complete rest of the region now. My previous claim northwest with the canyon should be made to match, although I think/hope that there isn't that much work needed. I might be able to take care of that myself, unless you feel that it is handier to do all of these things in one go within your current claim by yourself. I'm kinda busy with the direnni assets at the moment, but I'd like to join exterior work again when I have had enough break.

Edit: Nice work on elaborating the background for village and caves.

User avatar
Luxray
Cat Herder
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm
Location: South-West England

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Luxray » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:13 pm

Berry in my mind you are an absolute genius, the sheer number and variety of hidden external caves is astounding!
The explorer will be well rewarded in these cells!!
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:10 pm

Luxray wrote:Berry in my mind you are an absolute genius, the sheer number and variety of hidden external caves is astounding!
The explorer will be well rewarded in these cells!!
:oops: Well, thank you, I'm glad you like it. I actually slightly cut down on number of that cavey spots few updates ago. I like them, a lot (bet that's not a surprise at all :P ) but my reasoning was you shouldn't encounter them around every corner in one region, then not see any at all in the rest of Tamriel. But I'm quite fond of those that are left.
worsas wrote:We've been torturing you for a while, I guess. But you have been making some gorgeous landscaping since your previous update. I love to be looking at what you did with the covered rocks on top of the cliffs or the little dirt patch framed by smaller rocks. I have yet to find something I really dislike about your latest file. How do you feel about it yourself?
It's been tough, but rewarding experience. I really like how it's all turning out, and the hours I have spent making it happen were really enjoyable. It's just that sheer number of cells and issues to deal with in this claim was rather overwhelming at times. I'm glad it's heading towards completion now. :)
worsas wrote:I think your current claim can safely act as reference for the complete rest of the region now. My previous claim northwest with the canyon should be made to match, although I think/hope that there isn't that much work needed.
Not at all, as you know I based my ongoing overhaul on how your cells looked like, mostly. Were I to suggest some changes, I'd go with adding some more trees (and a grove, on the wetlands edge), more bushes (I have to get down to it in my claim myself) and a subtle exterior cave or two. But I'm not saying any of them are obligatory.
worsas wrote:I might be able to take care of that myself, unless you feel that it is handier to do all of these things in one go within your current claim by yourself. I'm kinda busy with the direnni assets at the moment, but I'd like to join exterior work again when I have had enough break.
I would love to receive a helping hand in that! Be my guest. I'll make sure there aren't any remaining landscape issues in my cells bordering yours, so with next update you would be able to get it started if you feel like.
__

Update. Finished barrow's interior, called "Sky_claim_berrow". (forgive me that naming pun :roll: ) I'm really glad how it turned out, I'm eager to hear how you guys feel on it.

Slightly expanding how I see the lore behind that barrow: it was erased as a tomb for the First Era Nordic war leader and a champion of Morihaus, probably well-loved among his kin, as his resting place looks rather majestic for it's size. Perhaps it used to be even more ornate, but across the millennia all that could be looted was taken care of; yet the dead king himself slept undisturbed. His last flatmates, Hammerfell soldiers fighting in Bend'r-mahk war, were all killed one night, when strong Skyrim forces ambushed them here. In following months the battlefield was plundered by the Reachmen; the tribesmen successively took anything that could prove useful to them in this tough surroundings, though they left heathen corpses as they were. Now, decades later, no living beings other than spikeworms can be encountered here.

I threw in one stalhrim block in that barrow. I don't think it's out of place here, as you can take that thing to the Red Mountain and it still won't melt, but I figure some may find it weird to see it among dirty grasslands, close to Hammerfell border. I like the atmosphere it creates in that interior though, so if anything we can perhaps use it for some barrow laying further north? I can come up with something less unusual for this one.

It fits that barrow, for example:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/gPB0hIX.jpg[/hsimg]
Attachments
Sky_claim_berr #2.ESP
(2.24 MiB) Downloaded 13 times

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by roerich » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:23 am

Sounds cool, though I'll have to point out that Stahlrim should be a Solstheim-only thing (I think). Giving your file a look now.

Edit:
Northmarker: Yes
Illegal to sleep here: No (correct)

- Sky_Furn_Com_Bench_02 floats, sunk it a bit due to the soily nature of the floor
- Sky_Furn_Crate_Broken_02 floats, ^
- Sky_Misc_Flask_Blue_03 looked a bit weird, even underwater. Rotated it a bit
- Contain_BM_stalhrim_01 might conflict with lore, but left it for now. I like how things are stuck frozen in the block, and it makes a neat and (perhaps a little too) bright centerpiece.
- Sky_Misc_Bucket_01 rests a bit weirdly, but that is a tricky rockface as well. Left it for now.


I really like this interior. It's ingenious, fun and well-made. You utilize a lot of assets in clever ways, and you've given me inspiration for future barrow interiors. The tomb itself was brilliant, as was putting barrow blocks in the floor.

(The attached file hasn't been cleaned, as it wasn't just the barrow cell but the overhaul file as well)
Attachments
Sky_claim_berr_reviewed.ESP
(2.24 MiB) Downloaded 13 times

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:15 am

Thanks a lot for a review! I will check it promptly :)

As for a stalhrim, well, I never could understood why it was limited to Solstheim in TES V. In Bloodmoon's dialogue it is said to be ancient Nords' thing in general; iirc Carnius Magius from East Empire Company even says the Ancient Nordic Pickaxe PC has is the only one on the island, yet likely not the only one worldwide. I liked how Dragonborn DLC showed stalhrim, with sarcophagi filled with it, or hidden stalhrim barrier blocking way further down the dungeons. That, and a sacral character of that material, is a theme we could elaborate on. I think we should obviously avoid limiting it to a source of cool forging material, what Bloodmoon kind of did, but were we to resign from using stalhrim altogether we would strip our vision of the province from some neat concepts. But that's something that needs a conceptualizing discussion, I suppose.

I'm glad you like it overall, Roerich. :)

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by roerich » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:30 pm

You bring up some good points. Yeti is our head lore-monkey, so I'll wait and see what he says.
I think we should obviously avoid limiting it to a source of cool forging material
Exactly my thoughts, and I'm afraid it'd look like us being lazy and take some uniqueness away from Solstheim. If we limited its use to only in tombs of a certain age or older, as well as in a limited number of locations, it could work just fine. I still think your's is a bit too bright, although it looks very cool so I'll let others be jugde on that. :D

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:41 pm

OK, I eventually ended corporating my old claim into this as well for some improving. Nothing drastic this time, I want the valleys to look more like what we have in mind for this region, without striping them from their feral, unwelcoming look. Facelifted the villages as well, so they actually look like someone lives (or lived, in case of the ruins) there. The village valley is already finished in like 90%, I'm still playing with different concepts for the Hagravens' valley - the outcome may be quite similar to how it currently looks like though, CS render doesn't do justice to it; it's fun to explore. I don't plan to do any changes to the clifftop of my first claim, save maybe making ruins more sparse, for easier travel. We'll see.

I put new cave on the slopes of the Hagravens' valley, to be seen on screens below. I'd like to pull it off myself as a small natural cave with forest-like brushwood of Dragynias and ferns. It's a concept I've had in mind since I saw new Dragynia model, and given surroundings that's the perfect spot for it. I'll see how it will turn out, I'm fine with resigning from that concept altogether as well.

I made villagers of -109, 6 isolated Forsworns and bandits/smugglers, for a change. I moved a cave entrance from -108, 5 (it was on the very edge of the cliff, atop Scamp's waterfall grotto. Few players were likely to find the spot anyway) to the cliff face by the village - second half (or more?) of the villagers could reside underground, having this relatively small village outside as an outpost. The tunnels could lead to Aldkarth Lowlands, making it a fine route for smugglers, and atop the Braig Cnoss as well. I'd love to have Hagravens' sabbath reside way down there, in "13th warrior" movie-style tunnels and underground windy cliff canyons... I'm getting carried away again though. :P At the very last it would make a cool place to live for a few Reachmen families.

Overview screens:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/BEsofK1.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/IvX8xI3.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/hVGnXLR.png[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/SoYjQat.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/WqyElr6.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/saeWkAU.png[/hsimg]

From other notable changes, I switched barrow interior with Roerich's reviewed version.

Feel free to point out any concerns you might have had about this claim back in it's days, everyone.
Attachments
Sky_claim_berr #2.ESP
(4.03 MiB) Downloaded 15 times

User avatar
Luxray
Cat Herder
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm
Location: South-West England

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Luxray » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:12 pm

I love how your two claims intermix in the file.

You are a great asset to us berry! Fantastic stuff as always in my view.

We shall have to find a city for you to design next... :)
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:07 am

Berry, would it be possible that I get the latest version of your claim so I can try out something with it? When I'm done, I will send it back to you for feedback. I don't know yet if it is a good idea, what I want to do. But this is some kind of reference claim for our future work, so I don't want to wait until changes are a no-go anymore.

Fine with you?

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:21 pm

Sure, here you go.

@Luxray: Thanks. :)
Attachments
Sky_claim_berr #2.esp
(3.95 MiB) Downloaded 13 times

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:19 pm

Now look what these grass objects do to your perception of scale...
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... dscale.jpg[/hsimg]

I'll always add this little man as reference from now on. I immediately started to to work thorougher and more focused on micro-detail after adding him.

I'll also send the file back to you as soon as I can. I'm only doing some touchups where the dirt road branches off from the main road and the cliff next to it.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:35 pm

Sounds great, I couldn't for the life of me get this area look right. :) Feel free to conduct any changes you wish, here or elsewhere round the claim.

I won't be able to get any CS work going at the very least untill Thursday, so no need to rush here too.

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:35 am

I have worked on the cells -108,12 to -111,12 and -108,13 to -111,13 and left the others almost untouched. What I tried to do in these cells is making the regional concept of the Druadach Highlands a bit more compact, open and flatter.

In the above cells I have deleted all free-standing big blank rocks or peaky rocks and either replaced them with covered rocks/boulders or groups of small blank rocks. Big blank rocks only remain as part of cliffs or hillslopes. Unless you disagree with this idea, I think we should carry this over to the rest of the region. Big, freestanding blank rocks could get used as sightblockers in the Aldkarth Lowlands instead.

Additionally I have sunk in most rocks very deeply to to fortify the flatness and underline the many rock terraces in the landscape. I have made the tops of the cliffs flatter aswell, removing the towering rock accumulation and any tall rocks, again in order to keep it flatter in overall appearance and to make clear that these are plateaus and not mountains.

I also added more textures breaches and small rockgroups and tried to spread them in somewhat regular amounts over the landscape.

Lastly, I rescaled all trees roughly like this: 2.0 -> 1.3 and 1.0 -> 0.7, so trees are 1.0 scale in average (again only the in the above mentioned cells). This makes the landscape appear much bigger. In the forest, this results in less canopy coverage, which makes it sparser and more reachy, in my opinion. I have not changed anything else about that forest cell, though. I think that the forest should eventually receive some of the landscape features of the Druadach highlands.

Actually, I have messed a little bit with your stuff. Feel free to voice your concerns about the changes I made and feel free to mess with my stuff, as I messed with yours.

One last thing: You should think about a cavern or tomb along the long cliff range on the area of your previous claim. It is amazing to walk here ingame, but it really calls for a little cave or tomb or something.
Attachments
cliffrange_location.jpg
Sky_claim_berr #2_worsas.7z
(1.04 MiB) Downloaded 13 times

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:48 pm

I really like it, both the concepts and the execution. In fact I spent whole yesterday adjusting the rest of my claim to your changes, hence somewhat late answer. :)
worsas wrote:Big, freestanding blank rocks could get used as sightblockers in the Aldkarth Lowlands instead.
Cool, so then it would allow us to use Search&Replace feature as a first step when we get to this claims, as to my knowledge many overgrown rocks use the same meshes as 130~~ 04 rocks; I will try to write the instances down in a spare time.
worsas wrote:Lastly, I rescaled all trees roughly like this: 2.0 -> 1.3 and 1.0 -> 0.7, so trees are 1.0 scale in average (again only the in the above mentioned cells). This makes the landscape appear much bigger. In the forest, this results in less canopy coverage, which makes it sparser and more reachy, in my opinion. I have not changed anything else about that forest cell, though. I think that the forest should eventually receive some of the landscape features of the Druadach highlands.
That's the only point that arose my concerns at first, but I put my mind to it eventually. Sized down trees really work well here. I still think it would look cool were we to replace like 1/3 of them with some kind of a vertical variant of 01 leaf bush though.

Furthermore, we can make it a distinctive point between grassy Druadachs and Falkar Foothills/Farmlands, with the latters having slightly bigger (1.0-1.5) trees.
worsas wrote:One last thing: You should think about a cavern or tomb along the long cliff range on the area of your previous claim. It is amazing to walk here ingame, but it really calls for a little cave or tomb or something.
Funny story here, as at first I understood you want me to make a complete cavern here, together with an interior. When it dawned on me on second read it wasn't really what you suggested, the interior's layout was already done... :D So it's here. Still a WIP, but I figured I'd better have it discussed with you guys, rather than going a full outlaw. :P Scribed some schemes to illustrate it. Some of you might actually remember similar concept from half a year ago, as I was originaly considering something among these lines for what turned out to be the hagravens cave.
Image Apart from that, I continued detailing the hagravens' and the village valleys, gave the cliffs around the clifftop village an overhaul and begun some fixing along the cliff part of Haimtir's road - all according to new outlines. Additionaly, I replaced the rock shroom with more fitting altar to Trinimac. I like where all of this is heading, overall.
Attachments
Sky_claim_berr #2_worsas.esp
(3.92 MiB) Downloaded 15 times

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:24 pm

And you just added another interior in a minute... you are insane :D

The rescaling of the trees is more of a general thing we should do, not necessarily limited to the Druadach Highlands. The trees are one of the biggest factors that determine how big the landscape appears to you and consequently how we subdivide and detail it. Actually I have the map 5 exteriors of TR in mind where the bloodmoon pines are used. To me it seems much more fitting to have moderately sized trees for a skyrimic landscape. The same thing applies for the rock changes i made. The rocks didn't look bad beforehand, but there were additional considerations. You had started with all those steppings in the landscape and I felt they should be turned into the predominant feature for this region. That rockarch looked great in and on itself, but without it the landscape has become more open and you have a more consistent scenery in distant land without something very different suddenly popping out of the landscape (though we should mainly detail exteriors for the close up examination. making something look good in distant land is secondary, i'd say).

User avatar
Luxray
Cat Herder
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm
Location: South-West England

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Luxray » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:57 am

RIP the rockshroom. It was quirky 8-) But perhaps the altar is more fitting indeed. I like what you did with the fire pit in the Reachmen village, very clever.

Interior looks good to me, shouldn't be a problem to join it up to the interior of the sundered-towers ruin.

Each iteration of this file is progressively more impressive, so looking forward to it being completed!
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:18 am

Thanks guys, I'm glad you like it.
Luxray wrote:RIP the rockshroom. It was quirky 8-) But perhaps the altar is more fitting indeed.
Well, I liked it too, to some extent. Still it did stand out and I'm generally trying to get rid of all my early object-melds (e.g. the fallen tree ramp is now a goner as well :D ), as they tend to look rather handmade. That new take on the shrine lacks the massiveness of it's antecessor though, so I'll try to play with it some more.
worsas wrote:The rescaling of the trees is more of a general thing we should do, not necessarily limited to the Druadach Highlands. The trees are one of the biggest factors that determine how big the landscape appears to you and consequently how we subdivide and detail it. Actually I have the map 5 exteriors of TR in mind where the bloodmoon pines are used. To me it seems much more fitting to have moderately sized trees for a skyrimic landscape.
Agreed, when I got down to rescalling them, whenever I got to see a tree in 2.0 scale it seemed grotesque. Yet I still wouldn't downscale that much the trees all around the Reach - I think really small trees, in many cases overshadowed by surrounding sea of bushes, could be an unique feature of bushy Druadachs, underlining the alienness and unfriendliness of this region ('see, pal, even the trees can't make it here!'). Overall around the province, 0.8-1.5 should be the right scale range in regards to trees, with some exceptions possible too of course.
worsas wrote:The same thing applies for the rock changes i made. The rocks didn't look bad beforehand, but there were additional considerations. You had started with all those steppings in the landscape and I felt they should be turned into the predominant feature for this region
And I'm glad it turned out, the features like texture breaches, flat rocks and craploads of bushes make working on this region faster and less frustrating. It all looks more consistent and well, better, actually. We should eventually get down to brainstorming similar summary for Falkar Foothills and the Snowhawk, as they make exteriorers' job way easier.
(though we should mainly detail exteriors for the close up examination. making something look good in distant land is secondary, i'd say).
Agreed to the secondary role of distant-look. We should just take care not to have any dominant region feature look like crap - for instance how big rocks covering whole cliffs looked like - and we should be fine. :D

As for the recent progress... I was rather dissatisfied with how repetitive the cliffs pattern opposite the resistance cave looked like, so I ended grabbing -112,11, the "?" cell from the Reach claim map, followed by -112,10 for reference, as that's where surrounding cliffs are located. I just wanted to shape the landscape here, so it can be filled later on, when we will be merging this with Dragonstar, but I thought it would make a cool spot for an old Redguard fort protecting Dragonstar, so I gave this concept a go. There's a dirt road leading up here from Dragonstar's valley, and the fort itself is now garrisoned by the Bear Clan. What do you guys think about it? It's not something that can't wait, given how we want to focus on exteriors in our release area now, but I'd rather know should I lead that road up the hill, or just scrap it.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/bIEcqQJ.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/PU4xxs4.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/uK3Naw2.png[/hsimg]

User avatar
worsas
Project Administrator
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:23 am

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by worsas » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:39 am

Overall around the province, 0.8-1.5 should be the right scale range in regards to trees, with some exceptions possible too of course.
Agreed. I think that should work well enough.

As for Dragonstar, I was speaking to Roerich on irc (you are anytime welcome to join us on there, btw) and he actually proposed that you should be taking the Dragonstar claim. Though that would be a little bit more work now, of course. Feel free to disregard that option for now, but I agree with Roerich that it would make more sense, if you made it, already having prepared the surrounding landscape.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:40 am

Plus, that would secure my Guinness record for TES 3 biggest exterior claim. :P Jokes aside though, that makes sense and I'm cool with that. It'd be more efficient to make final touches to the hills with Dragonstar's valley sketch already coming to life and then get straight to the city when this horrendous lot of wilderness is done (hopefully somewhere by the August's end, not much is left to do). So I'm all in.

Regarding the IRC, thanks for (re)invitation, I'll make it there eventually :)

User avatar
roerich
Project Administrator
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:10 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by roerich » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:10 pm

Glad to hear that, berry! I'm in the middle of moving right now, but when I have the time (and an internet connection), I'll fill you in on my plans and give you the up to date file. I think Yeti would be very helpful as well, as he made some good concepts about the city and what/who it should contain. I already put in some cool stuff like the arena, the abandoned FG guildhouse and the Imperial Legion-manned dividing wall.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:30 am

Cool! No worries, take your time, moving can be stressful on it's own.

I'm pretty damn excited about it. :)

User avatar
Yeti
SHotN Jarl
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:38 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by Yeti » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:53 pm

If you have any questions about Dragonstar, I'd be more than glad to help.

User avatar
berry
PT Modder
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: The Reach - Western Grasslands #02 [berry]

Post by berry » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:46 pm

Thanks, Yeti. Some are bound to pop up, when I get to the city itself.

----

Here comes quite a massive update, too many changes to list them all. I put lots of effort in making the cells from my first claim look decent, I'd appreciate some feedback on this especially. :)
  1. I just merged this file with Roerich's Dragonstar to see how these look together (the answer is: frigging fantastic. The siege of Dragonstar must have been quite a battle) and to plan a layout for transition between these claims. Once I will have finished the hills, I will cut away Dragonstar's cells, together with these 4 cells (the road cells and the fort cell), fully completed (with grass etc) only by the edge of then done hills claim, for easier merging.
  2. Both my claims are really close to be completed now. I need to take a few days break from this, then, with a fresh eye, look for remaining landscape tearings. Later on - grass generating, some more detailing, adding more small rocks to cliffs and texture breaches, matching container plants etc. And it's done, hopefully.
  3. I got down to reviving that snippet of the Lowlands region laying inside this claim's borders, around -108, 6. Nothing major, but it'd still be better were we to settle if that's how we want this region to look like, to save us some trouble in the future. I rather like it myself.
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/8qjFrSn.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/4grpukn.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/cFHNCA6.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/mXCkZ1t.png[/hsimg]
Attachments
Sky_berry_druadach_triune.rar
(1.49 MiB) Downloaded 12 times

Post Reply

Return to “Completed”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest