Project Tamriel

I have visited this claim ingame and I somehow feel that you maybe should reserve that tavern at the bottom of Mount Snowhawk for a future area. In the unmodified exterior file I used to come across this area and admire it for its beautiful regional design, but now the tavern pretty much fills the whole scenery and I don't feel it anymore. We need to have some undisturbed wilderness aswell, especially around here.

Also, what's the deal with those bear clan banners in Markarth? I don't think they should have openly visible basements in other towns, rather a network of inconspicuous contacts across the hold. That's how I see them, at least. Does Markarth already have a local Nord Clan, btw?

I was planning to expand that area, but I'll see about that. I wasn't too happy with the location of the tavern either. I get what you like about this particular place.

The Bear Clan banners can be ignored. They are placeholders for a Markarth banner, if we decide to make one of those.
Markarth will have several Nord clans. At the moment there are three clansteads planned in the city, and a "guild hall" tavern frequented by Companions and Nord adventurers.

It seems I forgot to upload an update. Well, here it is! Sorry about the mess.

Here's an overview of my plans

Services and locations:
- 3 taverns (might remove 1)
- 3 mead halls (might remove 1)
- 4 shops (smith, bookseller, 2 general traders)
- 12 street vendors (sounds excessive, but they have small selections. really helps making the market come alive)
- 1 college of the voice (with rooms rented out to IAS, see the file for a preview!)
- 2 imperial guild halls (MG & FG)
- 1 imperial manor (Rislav Orens?)
- 1 imperial cult chapel, shrine of arkay
- 1 nordic temple, kyne's hall
- 3 nordic clansteads (2 of them with thanes)
- 2 nordic manors (both for thanes)
- 16 "commoner" houses (might remove 4-5)
- 1 elfstone keep (with throne room, barracks, prison and royal living quarters)
= 50 interiors

Factions present:
- kingdom of the reach - joinable? a questline to become a housecarl for a jarl in one of the kingdoms could be fun. questgiver at least.
- imperial college of the voice - joinable? we should just have them require the player making a massive 15,000 gold donation first (like the Colovian nobles that attend the college), and then there's access to some really insignificant quests, showcasing how corrupt and useless the institution has become. or we should work on a lengthy questline to restore the college to at least some of its former glory.
- imperial archaeological society - joinable, or again - at least a questgiver.
- the companions - not joinable (not here, at least)
- guild of fighters - joinable
- guild of mages - joinable
- thieves guild - joinable
- the imperial cult - joinable
- the bear clan - not joinable. very small presence in the city. they have a hunter selling fur products in the market
- nordic "religious faction" - joinable?

Markarth is getting better and better. Still, I wonder, if you could cut down in this number of interiors. 50 interiors is still very very much. Can't you cut away the houses that are in a cell with the College and put there some rockscape instead?

Thank you worsas. I might, I wanted to cut down a bit on the numbers. The upper quarter is due for some revision as well, I might remove about 3 houses from that cell alone.

See my edited post for some clarifications.

Right, after looking at your edited notes above, I'm less worried. And the 12 houses of the street vendors are just houses of people selling their stuff at the market place? Just asking for clarification. I don't think it would be out of question to put several people in a single house. They are fairly large and could house several people. How about a khajiit-trader somewhere? The one you will always look at, when you need to rid yourself of illegal goods.

Regarding the little village you added to the east: Can you save it for a future area, like northern Haafinheim? The Reach is already pretty filled with settlements and we still need to add a legion fort and Falkirstad in this area. I love how it looks but it is already very filled and we need to change our wilderness-settlements ratio in favour of wilderness.

I quickly looked at the interior of the imperial geographical society and it's really cool already. You and berry, you two are really masters at indirect storytelling.

worsas wrote:And the 12 houses of the street vendors are just houses of people selling their stuff at the market place?

There are no interiors for those. It's just the small market stalls, and the stall selling drinks in the Imperial Quarter. They don't need to have interiors for them to stay in, at least not all of them. I figure most of them are implied as being travelling merchants or commoners from the countryside, travelling to Markarth to sell their wares, and staying in taverns.

worsas wrote:How about a khajiit-trader somewhere? The one you will always look at, when you need to rid yourself of illegal goods.

There's the mandatory seedy tavern by the docks, we could put him in there. Or perhaps have him selling and buying straight from one of the boats.

worsas wrote:Regarding the little village you added to the east: Can you save it for a future area, like northern Haafinheim?

Sure, it feels a little too close to the city for me as well. I will add wilderness and a road to Falkirstad, and remove the tavern. I thought about putting some silver mines in this area, what do you think about that?

worsas wrote:I quickly looked at the interior of the imperial geographical society and it's really cool already. You and berry, you two are really masters at indirect storytelling.

Thanks! Means a lot to me. I will add some sleeping quarters for the archaeologists, and a tiny museum/exhibition (with exhibitions on early nord culture and direnni ornamental art). What do you think about using the Imp_ruin set for the interior of the college?

That new layout of the College is awesome, I love the little terrace you built. Imp_Ruin seems like it would be fitting for the interior.

Great interior plans, roerich.

At most, there should only be two inns and two mead halls, though we could probably make due with only one mead hall, unless they're distinct enough for story telling purposes.

- nordic "religious faction" - joinable?

I just saw this after reading the post again. I don't think we are in need of a faction for nordic priests. I just don't see it working very well.

At some point in the past it was even the consensus that the imperial cult didn't need to be a questgiver in our mod. It should certainly be present, but we can keep it at the side as long as we wish.

Well I agree, at the first even the prospect of a Nordic temple building seemed wrong to me. But that I can justify somehow, in rare instances. Most Nordic religious places should be in the wilderness.

Didn't know where to put this, but I wrote some dialogue for one of the Companions in the mead hall by the market. Saving it here for posterity.
Ramund Troll-Bane, old male Nord Warrior
Medium-high rank in the Companions.

[Greetings]
Greetings, %PCClass. I'm Ramund Troll-Bane. I'm a real, live troll hunter. Have a seat with me, and we'll share some stories.

[Background]
I'm a troll hunter, I already told you. Why is every %PCRace I run into around here so half-witted? Well, if you care to know, I'm also one of those fabled brave Companions, of which I'm sure you've already heard wide and far about. But look around you, I could sweep the floor with any of these lice-infested weaklings. Old Ysgramor himself would swim back to Atmora, if he saw who they lets in nowadays.

[Latest rumors]
I wouldn't know, I don't care much for gossip.

[Little advice]
Ever had cooked troll flesh? It's terrible, I'll tell you that. Even goblin is better. Yuck!

[Little secret]

(Disp >85)
Do you think I'm sharing my tricks and hard-won knowledge with any %PCRace that walks in the door? Get lost. Or buy me another mug of mead. Or both. That would make a happy Ramund. Hah!

(Disp <85)
Well, since it's you, %PCName, I will tell you a secret about killing trolls. Ready? It's called fire. That's how you kill a bunch of trolls, as quickly and deathly as possible. The beasts have a thick layer of tar-like fat in their skin, and even their fur is covered in the stuff. Put a torch to them, and see them light up like an Orcish drink on a campfire. Myself, I had my sword enchanted with magic flames. Cost me a fair bit, but you should see the beasts when I cut fiery holes in them!

Now, my thick-headed fellow warriors would mock me for cheating by using magic. But while they are sitting drunk in their rotten mead halls, yapping about my work methods, I'm out there cutting down trolls by the dozen. Hah! But beware, my friend. A troll is dangerous in itself. A troll on fire, manic and desperate, will gnaw your face into bloody bits in seconds, unless you know what you're doing.

[My trade]
I'm a warrior. I fight for a living, as any warrior does, but I specialized in hunting and killing trolls. See, someone has a troll problem, they send for me. I show up, relieve them of their problem. They fill my purse, and everyone is happy. Except the trolls, I guess.

[Troll]
Savage beasts, but a worthy foe. Ever met one? Black fur, taller than the tallest man you've ever met, and smells worse than any Elf. Can't miss them. Add the strength of an ox, the ferociousness of a rabid wolf, and the brain of your average tree stump. That about sums it up. They're usually found in dark, stinky caves, and in great, stinky numbers. I once cut down seven of the bastards with a single swing of my sword. I think someone wrote a song about that.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/JEsqKkG.png[/hsimg]

Proposed banner for the city, although I might see if I can add a fourth circle.

A golden river drake, the three circles represent the jarldoms of Falkirstad, Karthwasten and Felsenhal, and the head of the dragon represents Markarth itself (I'll either include a fourth loop, or give the dragon a crown). We could refer to ancient myths telling of river drakes living in the Karth in Dawn Era times.

What a great banner! I've been thinking we could try to appease to TES V - sticklers with a ramhead design, but this looks rather good, actually.

Thanks worsas. I was thinking we should save the ram for Felsundhal.

Marvellous banner, I quite agree.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/xo41pif.png[/hsimg]

Update. Sorry about the mess!

- Added a small first era Nord fortress on the bank of the Karth, south of Elfstone. It would have worked to guard Markarth from southern neighbours, before Elfstone was built (though Elfstone was likely built on the ruins of a Nord fortress).
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/YtRJ104.jpg[/hsimg]
- Made interiors for a horse farm next to Elfstone
- Reworked the market for the umpteenth time. Added a camping section behind the market, where the travelling merchants are staying.
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/ig2zCNz.jpg[/hsimg]
- Added a small Direnni bridge on the road east of Markarth.
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/FVN4TU4.png[/hsimg]
- Lots of small edits in the city proper. I.e. a small practice area behind the guild hall, a door to an Imperial embassy etc.
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/WRwqzsN.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/VQvRGN1.jpg[/hsimg]

Have a look around yourself!

Edit: Additional (ingame) screenshots below: [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/NxTToSi.jpg[/hsimg]
The Imperial guild houses and an embassy of the Imperial Administration
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/vSDrZAf.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/V0Au3tM.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/fzzZ1Yo.jpg[/hsimg]
The market and the camping area of the travelling merchants
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/TMTHtQN.jpg[/hsimg]
An overview of the northern part of the city, seen from the market district
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/RLBWkmI.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/9GMxoJL.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/6cvdVsf.jpg[/hsimg]
Talos Plaza, with the college, a manor of a Thane on the left, and a clanstead on the right (whose clan overhead is also a Thane).
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/ntEX1ub.png[/hsimg]
Hralgar Meadhall, frequented by Companions and other heroes
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/HJIdidh.jpg[/hsimg]
Manor of the Provincial "Governor" (exact title is up for discussion), Rislav Orens
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/43rhCWZ.jpg[/hsimg]
Clanstead of one of the most prominent Nord clans in the Reach.
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/cP9BGSr.jpg[/hsimg]
Kyneshall, a Nordic temple and place of worship.
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/4E8tzwU.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/rqGyV8Y.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/itRLglB.jpg[/hsimg]
Elfstone Keep

What I don't like about this whole thing is the makeshifted city walls and the new makeshifted direnni bridge with the waterfall. I'm not even sure, how I feel about the imperial ruin groundtexture, you used in the upper part. I'd rather see a regular cobble texture used there.

Edit: I'm sorry for being a discouraging ass with my post. Just can't help about those misuses of assets. Yeah, I should have finished a wall set by now but I don't have the attention and time for it at this point. See, if you can arrange for a city walls made of the regular palisades or even the wallset originally intended for markarth.

No worries worsas. I'm open to any and all criticism. I think it's important to remember that we're a team, and Markarth should reflect not just how I think it should look, but a shared vision with input from everyone.

That being said, I'll what I can do about your suggestions.

-The Direnni bridge is extremely WIP, as is that whole area, as it was previously a river. What I wanted to make with that bridge would make more sense when the surroundings were closer to being finished, but I have some alternative ideas.

- I agree about the walls. Using the palisades is some I've already tried, with just as bad results as now. Using the original set would look really wrong to me, and give the city a completely different character. What about abandoning walls entirely? The city is already well protected by cliffs and the majestic Elfstone keep.

- I think the impruin floor looks great, especially on talos plaza. But I can alter it. I don't think the cobblestone textures work well with the markarth set, and the new road textures only work for the poorer areas. But I'll see what I can do.

- I agree about the walls. Using the palisades is some I've already tried, with just as bad results as now. Using the original set would look really wrong to me, and give the city a completely different character. What about abandoning walls entirely? The city is already well protected by cliffs and the majestic Elfstone keep.

I think I'm bothered about the gates in the wall, not that much about the wall itself.

Edit: After visiting the claim ingame, my perspective on the claim has changed a little bit. The new direnni bridge can probably stay, for one. I didn't really notice those small wooden separations for the gardened areas. They are quite nice ingame. Walking around Markarth is a diversified experience due to the way everything is laid out. Nice stuff.

On the mentioned wall problem, it is mainly the solid wall blocks that I'm annoyed about. They either need to be enterable (have windows and doors) or be exchanged for something that feels more like having an actual purpose.

Just for fun, I tried using the original wall set instead. I think it looks rather well, if used sparingly. It will only be used on the NE side of the town, where the entrances to the city are. The cliffs provide good protection from the other directions.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/mDuT2KH.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/KG3tSBu.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/1xLSSvo.png[/hsimg]

I somehow miss an external palisade ring but now it looks very proper with a stonewall

It seems like we're going to have more frequent updates for database than last year !

With these city walls it looks far more mature to me.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/emLX9mD.png[/hsimg]

Turns out your suggestion worked rather well. Finally the wall section feels right, hooray!

Looks sweet. makes me want to try and finish my exterior showcase at PC.

Update. (version 8)

Stone walls are in place and the market has been moved to a more central location.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/VIMzBiC.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/qjMQuDp.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/b1vxAcx.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/Wv379Lg.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/X6JIbpR.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/JRaoCsV.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/frtCrrA.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/NOvxMig.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/JtoPcQu.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/LI8CbTf.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/wjAeaBF.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/sGdsGu0.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/3ZjwPPp.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/LdApwLD.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/G0Qk1wB.jpg[/hsimg]
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/bGYiAK1.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/sS7uei9.jpg[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/m8494dp.jpg[/hsimg]

Amazing!
The new look with stone walls is really great, the whole city has very nice atmosphere now.
Shouldn't be the chickens hanged head down though?
Can't wait to visit that ingame and in OpenMW.

WOW! I missed a lot of awesome screenshots during my break from modding. I feel inspired to write another project update PR post!

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner!

(Such a shame St Olms couldn't live to see this day).