Vorndgad Forest#11 [Berry]

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worsas
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Vorndgad Forest#11 [Berry]

Post by worsas »

A claim for updating the area labelled 11 on this map:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... claims.jpg[/hsimg]

Related discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=480" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please include the adjacent cells from berrys druadach highlands- claim as seen here:
http://i.imgur.com/xnTuJy2.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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berry
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Post by berry »

Here's a little makeshifting I tried for refined Malagrok entrance, following Roerich's suggestion to use In_OM_spikes. How do you feel about it? Some more spikes can be placed around (and within the interior itself) for more chaotic, alien feel of daedric ruins.

It's location seen on the pictures is temporary, just for presentation, as it's too close to Kejev cavern. I was thinking Malagrok could be moved closer to the cliffside Uramok camp is located on, to the spot where Worsas pointed this empty cave on his Vorndgad overview scheme. Few of spikes can be scaled up and stick out of the cliff itself, towering above hostile orsimer encampment (just one yurt next to the sanctuary entrance?) below; I can see some ropes with bones, dreamcatchers and stuff hanging from them.

Some new point of interest would then be due in a previous location of Malagrok, maybe just some big rocks with few orichalcum ore containers.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/0qqmpCG.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/JTBI4WX.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/0IKuhAu.png[/hsimg]

edit: uploading the file with this mock-up cut out to interior cell

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/mvvxrmM.png[/hsimg]
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malagrok_exterior.esp
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worsas
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Post by worsas »

I have mixed feelings about this imposing entrance. I'm not sure, if it should be more than a regular cave with a hidden shrine in it. I'm not even sure, if the neigbouring yurts were such a great idea in the first place. I think it needs to be tried out in its final location and tested ingame.

I'm only worried that it's starting to get too much. But I hope that that worry is unfounded.

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berry
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Post by berry »

Humbly asking for a grantage of this claim. :) What I have in mind:
  1. Have this joined with Druadachs with finished roads, as seen here and here
  2. About detailing the clearing: I played with the concept of Direnni ruins I suggested in the other thread, and I think it's turning out nicely, not dominating over the area, as I feared it would. The idea is an Altmer conjurer lived here in secludence; in fact maybe there's still a summoned dremora lord trapped in his ruined dungeon, now worshipped by the Reachmen? Or maybe the daedras raid the locals from here? Either way I see some interesting possibilites about this ruin.
    [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/6c0hbdV.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/7lXAtPt.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/z8rsuxi.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/MVZrUWx.png[/hsimg]
    [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/MVZrUWx.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/1854kdP.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/DRyOofg.png[/hsimg]
  3. If you don't mind me jumping out of line again, I'd like to claim the interior of this ruins as well, given you like the concept :)

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

I'm on the fence regarding that Direnni ruin. That large erected rock looks a bit misplaced on your screenshots. But I'm honestly not sure, how I feel about it.

Another thing that you could maybe address in this claim is this:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... _cliff.jpg[/hsimg]

The circled area should maybe get changed to resemble the right side of the scenery a bit more (mainly the cliff descent). I remember it looking a bit odd ingame. I'm sure you could pull out something great with it.

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Post by Luxray »

Not sure if I totally like that Direnni ruin. It is eyecatching, and emerging out of the forest to find a long-abandoned Direnni ruin is certainly a cool concept that I wouldn't mind done at all! But I did like the simplicity of that existing clearing (even if it is a bit empty in gameplay terms). Don't take my opinion as a definite, or anything though. I do like your WIP screens.
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berry
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Post by berry »

worsas wrote:Another thing that you could maybe address in this claim is this:
(...)
The circled area should maybe get changed to resemble the right side of the scenery a bit more (mainly the cliff descent). I remember it looking a bit odd ingame. I'm sure you could pull out something great with it.
Sure, good catch. I'll try to come up with somethin here.

Thanks for feedback on the ruins guys, to be honest I actually sympathize with it. Looking at the pictures I kind of regret I didn't make it as a cliff range at the edge of a forest, spreading from the rocks of Kejev cavern, thus preserving a clearing. Maybe that's a way to go with it? I'll have to try some more approaches here. Second problem I have with placing the ruins here is the number of interiors in this area: there is Kejev and Malagrok a stone throw from here, and Uramok camp isn't that far too. There's probably a cave or two in the cliffside down there too. In conclusion, if we want ruins here it might be a better idea to go with just an exterior for them. I'll be making some more attempts and keep you updated. :)

Another thing to keep in mind about the clearing is it probably can't stay precisely as it now. In my opinion it's emptiness and how it is dependant on MGE grass don't go well with the brushed up look of the region. I'd like to preserve it's feel of an open space, probably just putting more plain rocks and using an occasional dirt/dirt grass texture within the grass textures.

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

Another thing to keep in mind about the clearing is it probably can't stay precisely as it now. In my opinion it's emptiness and how it is dependant on MGE grass don't go well with the brushed up look of the region. I'd like to preserve it's feel of an open space, probably just putting more plain rocks and using an occasional dirt/dirt grass texture within the grass textures.
The whole clearing is a bit unnatural at this point, because the trees stop at its border without an apparent reason. It's also damn big for a random clearing in the forest. I'd definitely add trees (also dead trees) and rocks to it in a sufficient number. Do you remember the plan of adding some cliffsides along the forest path?

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Post by berry »

worsas wrote:Do you remember the plan of adding some cliffsides along the forest path?
Well, I had it in the back of my head, but thanks for reminder. Ultimately it turned out to be the way to deal with this clearing. :P

First update. I know everyone is quite busy these days, but I'd love to hear some critical feedback on this WIP. It's been a while since I've worked on a wilderness claim, and there might be some goofs to be found. :?

I had some hard time thinking how to deal with this claim, but I eventually came up with the current design that I'm quite satisfied with. The clearing maintains it's open feel, but doesn't feel so artifical anymore. It also looks quite Druadach-ish, which is cool, as it lies in this region's surroundings. Here's an overview map:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/jCvpgjU.png[/hsimg]

As you can see, I got both the road and the clearings itself framed with bending cliffs, per worsas' suggestion. I eventually abandoned the idea of Direnni spires and added some exterior only Nord ruins to the clearing; there's a barrow and a shrine to Kyne, clouded by birds, still paying their respects to this holy place. I also showed some love to the entrances to Kejev and Malagrok. I especially like how atmospheric the latter turned out, it feels like an entrance to a dungeon in Daggerfall. :)

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/Nr5l40J.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/op2dOhn.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/QjXnTJE.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/56ok9bI.png[/hsimg]

In regards to the empty area mentioned by worsas, I expanded the cliffs in that direction, hiding a little shrine to Trinimac within. Here's how it currently looks like, loaded with surrounding cells:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/kLNWJoi.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/kI0QvH4.png[/hsimg] [hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/KpJaxmZ.png[/hsimg]

Among less note-worthy changes, I did some work to the bandits' encampment in -107,15. It always bugged me how they looked like they were just having a camping in a middle of nowhere. They have a wooden shed and bedrolls now.

Edit: I can't believe I actually forgot to upload the file :mrgreen: here it goes.
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Post by Scamp »

That cliff looks good. Me likey. I also like exterior-only features like that barrow. It's just something you stumble across in the wilderness, but doesn't put you off by opening up another huge, generic dungeon. This can be way more interesting and adds diversity.

It is a bit unfortunate that I joined in on this whole feedback thing a little late here. I saw you guys have spoken about unnatural clearings, and I remember there was such a mysterious clearing in the Old Forest in LotR, a result of hobbits pushing back "the forest" and making an example by creating this clearing and making a huge fire in it. Somehow it stuck for centuries without the trees ever retaking it, leaving a rather unnatural, almost scarily empty clearing in an otherwise dense and gloomy forest.

... well, sorry for the digression, I guess it doesn't really matter now. Just some thoughts on the sort of magic Tolkien employed, which I think we could use here and there to get rid of this whole "everything must look natural"-philosophy.

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Post by worsas »

My main problem with how this clearing had been previously, is that it added to the domestic landscape feeling that we're trying to get rid of. Lore-excuses can be made up as soon as something cannot be changed anymore at all.

On the recent changes: I visited it ingame and it worked really well to me. The barrow feels more right than the previous direnni approach. My anxiety about these things starting to become abundant was probably unbased. I also like that little trinimac shrine. The landscape is so intricate that none of this makes it feel overcluttered. We can still add another direnni fortress in the remaining border mesa north of Dragonstar. I only haven't seen Malagrok ingame yet, but I'll let you know what I think once I have.

Two things that should maybe get tweaked:
1. The terrain transition to the grassy rocks you added. Try to make it seamless as if they were just a continuation of the terrain, in case you weren't planning to do that anyway.
2. The dirt paths. Ingame I was walking the along the cobble path leading to dragonstar and falkirstad and noticed how well the interruption of the cobbles with the rocky dirt texture worked. The smooth dirt path, in comparison, appear somewhat bland and homogenous. Adding stains of rocky dirt to the dirt paths might help it.

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Post by berry »

Hey, Scamp! Great to see you back in the saddle. :)

Regarding the clearing, when I first saw it I thought how fitting it would be to have there lone stone circle formation, a portal to the fey-like Oblivion plane. So I guess we were getting similar vibes about it. :) I'm definitely not against having some "otherwordly" (for the lack of a better word) areas, but right here and now and without some solid lore-ish fundaments behind it I think it looked too unnatural, especially with the changes Worsas and I have been conducting to the Vorndgad area. It would be cool to have those "silent clearings" in the forests of the north though.
worsas wrote:1. The terrain transition to the grassy rocks you added. Try to make it seamless as if they were just a continuation of the terrain, in case you weren't planning to do that anyway.
Sure, I'll see about it. Probably won't force myself to the spineinside-ish level of dedication, but I'll make it look decent. :P
worsas wrote:2. The dirt paths. Ingame I was walking the along the cobble path leading to dragonstar and falkirstad and noticed how well the interruption of the cobbles with the rocky dirt texture worked. The smooth dirt path, in comparison, appear somewhat bland and homogenous. Adding stains of rocky dirt to the dirt paths might help it.
Neat call, thanks! I'll add some leaf stains to the forest parts of this path too, though it's pretty much well covered already.

Thanks for all the feedback!

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Post by berry »

Alright, here goes another update. Apart from bugfixing, grass adding and some minor detailing it's close to being finished now. Foremostly, I merged this file with my Druadachs claim and finished the road network of this region. About the merge, just to make things clear, the presence of the tower instead of the village doesn't mean I arbitrary decided here (though you know my opinions on the matter... :P ) - I just had this version of the esp on my PC. I only touched the border cells of my Druadachs claim anyway.

Some remarks:
  • I used barrow stairs for the path leading up to the watchtower. I'm aware we are slowly reaching the point where there would actually be too many Nord ruins in the area, but in this case it was a necessity. The slope here is to steep for normal path to work, and some modern wooden steps (Karthgad style) wouldn't make sense in this wilderness. I figured it would work well, as we plan to turn these "Breton towers" into old Nord ruins anyway.
  • The eggs lying on the Kyne's altar-nest are supposed to be wild eggs, of course :P I'd actually suggest to have this ingredient renamed just an "Egg", instead of a "Chicken egg", for a wider range of possible uses. As for the concept for this altar... I don't know, I just found such communion of mundane and sacral very Skyrim-ish.
  • There is an instance of uber loot - a Stalhrim war axe, namely. But then, even I had some problems with finding it's location in-game, so I'd say there is no harm in keeping this cave for the tight minority of players that will somehow stumble upon it.
Enjoy!
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Post by worsas »

From within the CS it all seems great to me. It really feels like the little bit touchup this area needed to feel right together with the neighbouring areas. The rare loot is no problem, as it's well hidden.
As far as I'm considered, you can call this finished anytime you want to.

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Post by berry »

Thanks! I don't want this to end overcluttered, so I'll probably add some rocks to the cliffs, fix the grass and call it a day. :)

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Post by worsas »

Here are a few errors I came across:
4/27/2016 (18:17) Sky_claim_vorndgad_11+druadachs.ESP 4/24/2016 (12:56) 1 Sky_Flora_Tree_Pine_05_02 The Reach, Vorndgad Forest (-106,11) -863632 90573 5277 "floating"
4/27/2016 (18:20) Sky_claim_vorndgad_11+druadachs.ESP 4/24/2016 (12:56) 1 Sky_Flora_Tree_Leaf_02_03 The Reach, Vorndgad Forest (-105,12) -859797 104817 2765 "tree standing a bit too low"
4/27/2016 (18:28) Sky_claim_vorndgad_11+druadachs.ESP 4/24/2016 (12:56) 1 Sky_Terrain_Rock_04_135 Sky_druadach_berry2_#11? (-109,15) -887852 128846 2471 "caspering cliffs"
4/27/2016 (18:33) Sky_claim_vorndgad_11+druadachs.ESP 4/24/2016 (12:56) 1 Sky_Terrain_Rock_04_124 Wilderness (-110,11) -895509 96814 4369 "missing vertex color below this rock"

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Post by Scamp »

Hi berry, I'm slowly making my way through some of the recent exterior work that I've missed out on. Not looking at much in detail, really, but here's two things I quickly came across in this one.

There's a waterfall in cell -109,9. I realize this is an older claim of yours which I have reviewed back in the day. Still, I assume you have added that in later (if not, shame on me for not mentioning it earlier!). It might still need some work hiding away the "plane-ness" of the waterfall meshes with more rocks. Take a look at the barrow waterfall on my second mesa for some inspiration of you feel like you need it (probably not, you're doing an superb job overall).

That shrine to Kyne is pretty neat. However, I really don't like this stacking Sky_Ex_Barrow_Block_10s to make a stairway leading up to it. If you changed the z-rotation values on each of them it might already help a bit. In the end though, I feel like you might be better off without them entirely.

Now that I see this all together (really haven't looked at all this in one piece so far, if you will excuse my being outdated), I must say that the overhaul was a great decision. There's many more little interesting things to see around the wilderness, and the cliffy, mazy landscape allows for much more interesting exploration. Since I'm already in the process of praising things (and it's in this file anyway), the new Karthgad looks excellent in its surroundings. Again, I've previously only taken a look at these things briefly without paying very much attention. I still don't quite dig the wooden construction thing crawling its way up the cliff near the town, but I believe we agreed that it should remain there. Anyways, great job everyone!

Oh, not sure if it belongs in this thread, but -103,9 will have some texture seam problems where the different road textures meet if you disable the grass, might want to cover that with a rock or some such.

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Post by worsas »

I have mixed feelings about the wooden construction myself. It's not the eyecandiest addition, but on the other hand I always end up using it whenever I'm ingame testing something, so there must be something good about it.

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Post by berry »

Alright, please excuse me, but I'll catch up with all the recent forum activity when I'm back from hospital. I'm a little in a rush today, so for now I'll just leave a finished version of this claim here. :P

Some things to have in mind, from most notable changes:
  • I merged this with some cells from Aldkarth file (Karthwasten docks and all cells in one line with it, adjacent to the forest; cells around the waterfall; Scamp's grotto), so we'll have to wait for spineinside's updated version of Karthwasten esp to have this two compatible again. I also started some very basic conceptualizing of placing a stone bridge above the waterfall (not really sold on mixing it with barrow platforms, so it will probably go) and made a mash up for Nord ruins on that clifftop (sorry, Muspila :lol: but it literally took me like 10 minutes, so not much time wasted). There's a way up the Druadachs from this cliff now as well. Moved the underdocks grotto to more visible location too.
  • I revisited some areas of my older forest claims I was never fully satisfied with, namely the "vampire barrow" in -104, 11 and the "Amber Guard" (that's how I call this fella, utilizing that old Arena name; maybe actually there was a Reachmen deity of old with that name, worshipped in the area of current Karthgad, before Nords drove the locals away?) in -107, 12
  • I extended the cliffs between the "Amber Guard" and the hunters' lodge, so now the path intersection here is more definitive and easier to notice
  • added some more routes to the forest - there is now a rock bridge between the "vampire barrow" clifftop and the "Amber guard" mesa, and slopy cliffs leading up the Druadachs and to the "Amber Guard" too, from the place were two Orsimer bandits are standing in -107, 11
  • moved these two forest caves to more visible locations
  • replaced many leafy trees with their dry counterparts
  • I started some work on the cells in the northern part of this claim, that is -103, 15 etc, belonging to the forest-Farmlands transition zone; this can be considered a proof of concept or a testing ground for Farmlands region, I guess. Anyway I added some overgrown rocks (I'd be against removing blank rocks entirely here, especially the arches and the "pointy" ones, they create great atmosphere), replaced some grass with shrubs, and some trees with northern pines. It's looking surprisingly good so far I'd say. Please forgive me that offtop, but since I brought this up already, I'd also vote to include bearclaw-née-persarine and mistletoe in the plans for Farmlands region. And maybe replace one of the oh-can-they-be-more-fps-heavy farms with a beehives and a mead production? It could compete with Scamp's winery for the supremacy in this part of Skyrim, which would be quite cool thing to implement I think.
  • the changes I recently made to the river are still present, no worries though, I will take care of them in a future claim of mine :)
  • added some more birds and wilderness creatures, but it's still a drop in the sea of needed work here
  • got some work on fixing my Druadachs area - fixed all the problems with grass I could find, outlined the road with stronger vertex colour and fixed the issues caused by changing cliffs models
  • I also made a small beacon for Karthgad's docks, that looks rather good I think, but I'm a little on the fence about it. I'm leaving the decision here to the "blues" and the rest of the team. It's just a quick mash-up for now, so it will be easy to delete/alter
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/fhe0OVg.png[/hsimg][hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/bs1k0KU.png[/hsimg]

Enjoy, and let me know what you think about it. :) And while I'm gone feel free to get any changes you deem necessary yourself, everyone. So unless I have some time to chime in in the evening, see you all on Wednesday/Thursday then. :)
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Post by worsas »

Thankyou for hurrying up to finish this claim. It's one step closer to our next release.

I like it overall, but again, I feel that you have run yourself into overtweaking things a bit. That barrow entrance or the sacrificial reachmen site wouldn't have needed any additional work. Actually, I'd rather see the barrow entrance put back to its previous state, which in its modesty felt better to me, the only addition I approve of, is the dirt you put between the steps. All the other barrow structure look great, however. The new barrow structures in the Aldkarth... I don't feel strongly about them, but they can stay.

Please, try to avoid running into so many uncoordinated changes next time. You should allow barrows or cave entrances to look normal without adding thousands of bells and whistles around them. It just starts to feel moddy quickly.

The one makeshifted shelter for the bandits with incorporates log pieces and the reachmen fence parts is similar there. The materials don't fit together. If the reachmen fence part gets replaced with something different, it should be ok, however.

I'm actually not sure about the entrance to malagrok either, it also screams "Hey, I'm a modded, makeshifted construction trying to impress you!".

I like the nordic fortress. What's the difference for these nordic ruin constructions is that the parts are intended to be used in a makeshifting way and that all of them are like that.

Lastly, I don't want to discourage you, but I totally hate that red shrub. Actually, I have made the 04 and 05 shrubs as replacement for them in the past, because they used to be around at that time and I alrealdy disliked them back then. I'm fine with the samples in the Druadach highlands, but please don't use them anywhere else.

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Post by worsas »

I have done a bunch of edits on your file:

- Replaced or removed all instances of red and dry grass in the vorndgad and midkarth area
- Removed all instances of King Bolete. If we want to introduce a new container plant to a region, we should do so properly, but please no random additions like this. I have left the clouded funnel though, probably frequent enough by now to justify its continued existence.
- Dealt with a couple of things that seemed a bit too makeshifted.
- Ditched most of your stuff around the malagrok entrance.
- Ditched that awkward statue in the uramok camp.
- Added some rock cluttering along sections of the forest path where it still felt a bit empty. Also added some stains of rocky dirt to it where it seemed appropriate.
- fixed a number of floating trees. There was also a place on the little mesa with the nord ruin where the cliff was caspering. Covered it.
- Ditched most of the special stuff you added to the barrow entrance, I already critizised.

I also edited -108, 16 to make for a bit more free space. Feels better to me.

I went a bit harsh over some of your stuff, but please note that I very much welcome many of the other additions you have made. The new path branches are a very welcomed addition. The forest ruin is still great. Also, I left the reachmen sacrifial place mostly as it is, as that archway you added, didn't look too bad in the end. But I removed the wooden grate from the stone construction. Please don't mix things like these in future.

Overall there are some really great changes in this area. It's far better and more interesting than it used to be.
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Post by berry »

Thanks for a review, Worsas.

All the changes sounded a little harsh, but it's not that bad in CS, as far as I can tell. I don't have any problem with strict remarks, especially since it's true many of these changes were my own ideas, don't having "a green light" from you guys at leading department, but lots of stuff you did here sounds awfuly arbitrary. It's like I liked something, you did not, but you are a lead developer, so you came in waving a banhammer. I always thought this forum is more egalitarian than this. That sucks a big time, to be honest, since I've been working on this area for over a year now and there's likely some reasoning or a possible input behind stuff I do. Take the slopy cliff leading up to Druadachs, in -107, 11, for example. You removed it (creating some floaters, too), and I not only was particularly happy how it turned out, but now a burned carriage from my Druadachs claim finally made sense - when the village in -109, 11 was being sacked, the villagers desperately tried to reach that road. Another thing - I thought we are in the middle of conceptualizing "farmlands" region, so frankly I'd rather expect some discussion before declaring a concept I proposed for this area to be "nah", just because (and yeah, I'm aware this shrub's quality is not the greatest.) We've (I've, as it looks like?) been adding some rare bolettes and funnels to the wilderness since my first claim, and I'd swear you gave this an ok back then. I myself thought the fact we have been adding some northern shrooms to these areas would benefit later, when we will get to be making transistion zone between the Reach and northern counties - and I still think so. There are some Reach caves where these shrooms are used, too, so those should probably be revisited too (just like my recent Direnni mine, that contained some non-orichalcum ores, and you removed those from the wilderness). In essence what I'm saying is that you acted like I was a rookie doing some random goofs, while in fact there were lots of thinking behind most of these stuff I did here and you removed.

I understand the severe form of this review is caused by a desire to rush things up and I honestly appreciate the time and effort you put into it, but to be frank it all turned out quite disrespectful, from my point of view.

Thanks for scrapping that statue at the Uramok, though. It was sheer awful, I know. :P

I'm sorry if this post is a little incomprehensible, I only got back from a hospital few hours ago.

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Post by worsas »

You are not wrong. I decided much based on subjective judgement when editing your file. However, most things I address about your claims are makeshifts that in my view haven't succeeded. Objects are usually made to be used in a certain way and if you change the intended way of using them to makeshift something, it's always something that can go wrong and that can end up looking too moddy in the end. deleting such constructions has nothing to do with deliberateness. Not saying that that was the case with everything I edited. Some of it i changed, probably just because i didn't like it in its current shape.

I am some kind of lead developer, but that doesn't mean I can do everything I want without consent. Only, I'm so used to managing things and reviewing other peoples work that I sometimes just steer ahead and do what seems right at a given moment. If you disagree about these things, please, feedback is necessary.
Take the slopy cliff leading up to Druadachs, in -107, 11, for example. You removed it (creating some floaters, too), and I not only was particularly happy how it turned out, but now a burned carriage from my Druadachs claim finally made sense - when the village in -109, 11 was being sacked, the villagers desperately tried to reach that road.
I'm looking very hard at this cell and I can't quite figure out what you mean. I don't remember having deleted a cliffpath from this cell, at least not within this claim. Could be an accidental deletion?

Regarding the mushrooms, it was just odd to have those boletes mixed into the other mushroom groups here and there. To me it felt inconsistent and incoherent. But it might that I indeed agreed that you could add that stuff in the past. I was just looking at it the day before yesterday, feeling that it didn't really work well. I'm not sure really, what I thought about the mushrooms all the time. Probably I've been wanting to leave you freedom about them without really thinking about them further.

We should not disregard each other. I should have announced my intent of doing those edits, probably, rather than pulling them out directly.

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berry
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Post by berry »

Well, I'm probably overly sensitive now, I'm still groggy after all this hospital shit, so my apologies for overreacting. You're a great leader, over all.

About that cliff, you probably mistook it for another moddy cave entrance of mine, as it was just next to the entrance to Adjird cavern. :P Sky_Terrain_Cliff_L_04_I1 there opened this route, that went past that adamantum cave and lead up to the village and the sacrifical site.

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

Probably, it would make sense, if you had another look at the file and fixed any errors, I introduced.

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roerich
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Post by roerich »

It's always annoying to see work lost, and it really sucks when other people disapprove of something you think is a good addition. But I feel that it is important that we're all in agreement on what we're putting out. Creating a cohorent vision is important, instead of a bunch of personal mini-projects, which will eventually end with someone redoing everything. That being said, the criticism should be well argumented and not just one modder calling veto on something because of a personal disliking.

I do agree with worsas on the changes in your otherwise excellent do-over of this exterior, but this:
We should not disregard each other. I should have announced my intent of doing those edits, probably, rather than pulling them out directly.
should perhaps be more common - on both ends (modder and reviewer). We've had modders ragequit before, when someone critized (in a respectul way) something that they spent a lot of time on, but which wasn't really in tune with what direction the project was heading. Posting progress pics and announcing coming (larger) plans should ensure that minimal work is lost, and that we're creating something cohorent. And of course, being able to give and receive criticism in a mutually respectful way.
"I don't know if you are kidding but I 100% support a Big Mouth Billy Bass in PC"
- Taniquetil

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berry
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Post by berry »

That's some good points here, Roerich. I see lots of fault here (if "fault" is the proper term in this case at all) is on me, indeed. I'll try to improve the communication from my side and hold the reins when I have some new usettled ideas. And I agree the good of the project should be the main goal here.

I did a review of your review Worsas (dawg), and most of the changes you did here can defend themselves as reasonable, I have to admit. :P I fixed some more floaters etc and reinstituted the route in -107, 11. You also burried my chamber with Stalhrim axe, so I did a little rework of it once I was there; let me know if anything there feels off! Apart from that I also damaged the arms I added to the wilderness. This should be as good as finished now, hopefuly.
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worsas
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Post by worsas »

I didn't mean to destroy your hidden secrets. I probably went a bit coarsely over some things, after all. It looks great now.

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berry
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Post by berry »

Thanks! I would never assume that was intentional, this cave was halfway burried within a rock placed by a road outside; it was an honest mistake (or was it...?)

Scamp, slightly belated, but thanks for the feedback! As you can see I used your advice for the altar stairs. About the waterfall, the problem I can see there is already a heck of objects in this cell and I'm not sure I can make the waterfall any better, frankly. Would you mind grabing this if you're up to revisiting Druadach Highlands, perhaps?

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Scamp
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Post by Scamp »

I went right ahead and made some minor changes to your waterfalls! I hope you don't mind even more nitpicking about stuff in this claim. Nothing has been changed except for them waterfalls. I also tried desperately not to introduce any new bugs.

Hm, checking whether the resulting file is clean had me noticing that the original file wasn't even clean...? I'm sure "Ebonheart, Skyrim Mission" and such aren't meant to be edited by this file. (Anyway, didn't do anything about this)
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