Stirk NPCs [Infragris]

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Infragris
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Re: Stirk NPCs [Infragris]

Post by Infragris » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:53 pm

- tiny detail: imperial cult priest summons a bonewalker in combat.
This is going to be a problem, I suppose. NPCs versed in magic get a number of spells assigned automatically (not sure of the specific mechanics), which means that there could be all kinds of dunmerish undead and other effects floating around. These can be manually removed, but it's a pain in the ass. I wonder if it's possible to somehow remove them by script, through PC_Nolore maybe.

Indicentally, how are we going to handle Almsivi Intervention?

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Post by roerich » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:42 am

Indicentally, how are we going to handle Almsivi Intervention?
Remove scrolls from all levelled lists and any reference to it in P:C. I'm not sure there's a way to block it, but if the player wants to "break immersion" like that then I'm not sure we should go out of our way to fix it.

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Post by worsas » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:13 am

the usual npc-scripts could manually remove these spells on npcs. It's an easy edit.

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Post by Infragris » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:14 pm

That would probably be the best. We could take advantage of this and also filter spells with specific Dunmer names so that they don't show up with spell merchants. Then, we could replace them with Cyrodiil-flavored versions.

Proposed spells to be blocked:
Almalexia's Grace
Almsivi Intervention
Cure Blight Disease
Ondusi's Open Door
Ordeal of St. Olms
Rest of St. Merris
Rilm's Cure
Rilm's Gift
Seryn's Blessing
Seryn's Gift
Shield of the Armiger
Sotha's Grace
Sotha's Mirror
Summon Ancestral Ghost
Summon Bonelord
Summon Bonewalker
Summon Greater Bonewalker
Ulms's Juicedaw's Feather
Veloth's Benison
Veloth's Grace
Vivec's Feast
Vivec's Kiss
Vivec's Mercy
Vivec's Tears
Vivec's Touch
I wish I could find some documentation about how/why the game assigns these spells the NPCs, though.

From what I can tell, having auto-calculate marked in a spell can cause it to show up in merchant lists and on NPCs. I've edited this in the Stirk file for a couple of PC spells, like the Welkynd Spirt abilities.

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Post by Infragris » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:37 pm

WIP tiger lily:
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Post by worsas » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:48 pm

nice flower

Regarding the spells... unless you have some immediate inspiration for imperial counterpieces to the above-mentioned spells, I would be going to add these lines to our npc scripts now. Calling removeSpell on an npc that doesn't have the spell has no impact, I have tested, so we can just batch remove them in one go (and do the same with the shotn-npcs while I'm at it).
;remove dunmer spells from cyrodiil npcs
removeSpell, "almalexia's grace"
removeSpell, "almsivi intervention"
removeSpell, "Cure Blight_Self"
removeSpell, "Cure Blight Disease"
removeSpell, "ondusi's open door"
removeSpell, "ordeal of st. olms"
removeSpell, "rest of st. merris"
removeSpell, "rilm's cure"
removeSpell, "rilm's gift"
removeSpell, "seryn's blessing"
removeSpell, "seryn's gift"
removeSpell, "shield of the armiger"
removeSpell, "sotha's grace"
removeSpell, "sotha's mirror"
removeSpell, "summon ancestral ghost"
removeSpell, "summon bonelord"
removeSpell, "summon greater bonewalker"
removeSpell, "summon least bonewalker"
removeSpell, "ulms juicedaw's feather"
removeSpell, "veloth's benison"
removeSpell, "veloth's grace"
removeSpell, "veloth's gift"
removeSpell, "vivec's feast"
removeSpell, "vivec's kiss"
removeSpell, "vivec's mercy"
removeSpell, "vivec's tears"
removeSpell, "vivec's_wrath"
Edit: Btw. you seem to be right about auto-adding of spells to npcs, i just set up a sorcerer at level 20 and voila, he had ghostcurse and pc_ghostcurse in his spell list. So it's not limited to our own spells. I'm going to edit our custom creature spells so they don't get assigned to npcs anymore.

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Post by berry » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:33 pm

In addition, I think it's vital there's a doOnce local governing this removal, if these commands are called each frame it would likely result in a performance drop, especially if there are many NPCs in a cell.

I'm on a fence about this approach myself. I understand editing each NPC to remove these spells by hand would take a modder lots of time, but in general assinging a local script to each NPC in a mod feels unoptimal (though modern computers shouldn't have any problem with handling it), and now with making this script even more complex? I have my doubts.

Cool find with the auto-calculation thing. :) It will make things easier.

About the flower - I like that concept! It reminds me of old draygnia model. Maybe it might actually be reutilized here?

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Post by worsas » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:44 pm

In addition, I think it's vital there's a doOnce local governing this removal, if these commands are called each frame it would likely result in a performance drop
This removal happens in the same place where the county/hold variable is assigned to the npc. it only happens once.

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Post by Infragris » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:29 pm

Since every NPC already has a script attached to them anyway, we can just as well make use of it fully. I understand the concern over these scripts, but realistically speaking most cells never have more than 10-12 NPCs in them at a time, anyway. Spells can be removed manually, but setting up NPCs is already incredibly mindnumbing as it is.

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Post by Leon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:24 pm

Infragris, all ship interiors are made (including the pirate ship and ship wreck), waiting for a final review in the reviewing claim section :P
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Post by Infragris » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Nice! I had a quick look over them, very creative use of the pieces to make those storage units. I'm not a interior reviewer, but I ad a couple of minor criticisms:
  • Is it really necessary to block the minimap view? I don't think the internal view is that immersion-breaking, and some players might need the layout to orient themselves. I there are wall pieces sticking out, it's better to hide them selectively.
  • I noticed you never used the _walltop pieces: these are meant to be placed on top of normal walls in places where the ceiling is higher on the top level. I know they don't reach all the way up, but I think it gives the interiors more personality to have them as halfway dividers. Are there problems with these pieces?
  • Likewise, in many places you've put the flat wall pieces directly in front of the exterior hull. This is a bit of a pity, since this makes a lot of the interiors feel boxy and smaller than they need to be (and because I put a lot of work in those hulls). In the upper Snarleyohwl, for example, I don't see the need to cover the hull in the large back room and those three rooms along the left side.
  • In general, most interiors seem a little bit too clean: places like the fishing trawler, khajiit ship, and pirate ship could be a lot more cluttered and dirty. stacked crates and barrels could also do with minor scale, placement and rotation changes.
For the rest, these interiors do look pretty cool. If you need any additional parts for the set, I can look into that.

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Post by Leon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:27 am

Thank you Infragris, for tha criticism :)
Infragris wrote: [*]Is it really necessary to block the minimap view? I don't think the internal view is that immersion-breaking, and some players might need the layout to orient themselves. I there are wall pieces sticking out, it's better to hide them
Fixed.
Infragris wrote: [*]I noticed you never used the _walltop pieces: these are meant to be placed on top of normal walls in places where the ceiling is higher on the top level. I know they don't reach all the way up, but I think it gives the interiors more personality to have them as halfway dividers. Are there problems with these pieces?
I used them in claim "PC_i1-52" and "PC_i1-55". I just don't use them that much. I added a bit more of them now.
Infragris wrote: [*]Likewise, in many places you've put the flat wall pieces directly in front of the exterior hull. This is a bit of a pity, since this makes a lot of the interiors feel boxy and smaller than they need to be (and because I put a lot of work in those hulls). In the upper Snarleyohwl, for example, I don't see the need to cover the hull in the large back room and those three rooms along the left side.
I removed some of the walls now.
Infragris wrote: [*]In general, most interiors seem a little bit too clean: places like the fishing trawler, khajiit ship, and pirate ship could be a lot more cluttered and dirty. stacked crates and barrels could also do with minor scale, placement and rotation changes.
Added more objects.
Infragris wrote: For the rest, these interiors do look pretty cool. If you need any additional parts for the set, I can look into that.
Maybe some galleon windows? Small round windows for the sides, and a bit larger square windows for the back? And ship grates.
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Post by worsas » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:43 pm

I find it impressive that you were able to create these interiors so quickly again. Good work, Leon.

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Post by Infragris » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:48 pm

Cool, thanks a lot. Windows are a great idea, I'll look into that.

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Post by Leon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:50 pm

worsas wrote:I find it impressive that you were able to create these interiors so quickly again. Good work, Leon.
Having my laptop with me while being on my holiday was a genius idea :D
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Post by Leon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:05 pm

Ok, Infragris, can you grammar fix the reviewing/finished quests and merge them into the main Stirk file? Most of the major gameplay errors are fixed.
I also need to edit the Estarria sub quest when I claim the remaining two quests, which is in the "Gold in the Nets" quest, so it is crucial for those finished quests to be merged before I will continue with the remaining quests.
The ship interiors can also be merged, minor alterations (to those ships if needed) can be done afterwards, when I'm going to overhaul the Ayleid ruins on the island.
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Post by Infragris » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:45 pm

Ehhh maybe? Thing is, depending on the main quest outline most, if not all of the current sidequest would need to be edited slightly. The Estarria quest, specifically, can probably be merged into the main quest progression. Others, like the Helvor legacy etc. should perhaps be shifted to secondary characters (Syro Nemimus, Estarria, members of the Helvor family) to avoid conflicts and make sure that not every quest on the isle is given by the same three people.

Update: fixed some minor issues, implemented "little secret" dialogue. Guard dialogue should be functional? Didn't test it.
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Post by Leon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:19 pm

Infragris wrote:Ehhh maybe?
With your latest Stirk file; why aren't the ship interiors merged? Like I said earlier;
Leon wrote:The ship interiors can also be merged, minor alterations (to those ships if needed) can be done afterwards, when I'm going to overhaul the Ayleid ruins on the island.
Infragris wrote:Thing is, depending on the main quest outline most, if not all of the current sidequest would need to be edited slightly.
If you can make a list of things that need to be changed in those side quests, then I will look into it right away.
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Post by Infragris » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:22 pm

Changes in the new file were made yesterday and the day before, and reviewed today before being posted. The next update will include the ships.

About the other quests: I am a little reluctant to give solid advice, because I am not 100% sure which shape about the end shape of the main quest and I want to save us all from unnecessary revisions. However, I am pretty sure of the following:
  • The Helvor Legacy quest should be given and handled by Astoria Helvor, the mother of the current baron, instead of Vilina. Vilina is a major quest-giving NPC in the main quest, and it would be confusing if she gave additional, unrelated quests besides these. Also, this avoids all our quests being focused on the same three people.
  • Gold in the Nets: the player should report the amulet's discovery to Estarria, not Victus himself. This way, we don't have to worry about his seclusion, and it makes sense that his secretary would handle such minor affairs. Also, same reasons as above.
  • The Wreck of the Cassynder quest should be given and handled by Syro Neminus, the main clerk in Town Hall. This way, we have an equal split of sidequests between the three major factions on the island. Also, same as above. This would require a big change in the interior workings of the quest, but luckily this one hasn't been made yet.
Other quests are fine, but I do not want to merge them until the basic Stirk dialogue is ready. Adding a whole new layer of dialogue and conditions needlessly bloats file size, makes it files more prone to errors and glitches. It will also be easier for you to work on the main quest when the file on which it is built is no longer subject to revisions.

Still left to do:
  • "Little Advice": revise and expand
  • "Local Rumors": add non-specific catch-all responses
  • "Cyrodiil Lore": revise generic responses
  • "services": sequence errors, redo
  • "beds": sequence errors, redo
  • spellcheck
  • Diversify book usage
  • Add ship interiors
  • Check Tiger Lily placement for clipping errors
  • New Goldenrod mesh + check for clipping errors
  • Redo guards with gold coast armor

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Post by Infragris » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:11 pm

Riiight, so I overestimated how much time this would take. I've taken out one or two things that could better be handled by an independent dialogue plugin, finished basic dialogue and outstanding errors, replaced the deprecated books and merged the ship interiors into the file.

Still left to do: spellchecking, testing, and checking the tiger lily/goldenrod placement (which is basically the same size, so not really critical). On the topic of mesh/texture updates, the paintings are my next big annoyance, but that's a long-term thing.

Other than that, this claim is ... finished?
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Post by Leon » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:00 pm

Infragris wrote:Other than that, this claim is ... finished?
What a time to be alive. Great job Infragris! :D
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Post by Leon » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:18 pm

Haha, seems like someone has read my little poem :lol:

Errors I've encountered:
- In the Ayleid Reliquary container; it spawns way too much Welkynd Stones.
- "PC_Str_Joclyn Clodius" from the Harbor Gate Pawnbrokers, sells Moon Sugar.
- The counter at Mira's Trade Goods is way too close, stacked into a corner, and therefore impossible for Mira to flee or fight the player.
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Post by Infragris » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:17 pm

Okay, a bit too optimistic. There's still problems with dialogue filtering. A couple of things show up in Vvardenfell, and it looks like a lot of people don't use place-specific dialogue? And the bed rentals are broken again.

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Post by Infragris » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:36 pm

Okay, updated version. There are a couple of dirty edits to dialogue which I will remove later. Bed rental still doesn't seem to work: everything functions fine, but the room doors don't unlock. I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at that, because I can't find the problems. Might be something to do with the scripts.
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Post by worsas » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:18 am

Code: Select all

if ( PC_County == 1 )
	return
endif

set PC_County to 1
Right at the top of our script.

Needs to be switched for:

Code: Select all

if ( PC_County != 1 )
	set PC_County to 1
endif
I have not tested it, but that should do it.

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Post by Infragris » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:54 pm

I copied that part from the Stirk nonlore script. Doesn't that mean that the basic nolore has to be edited as well?

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Post by worsas » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:36 am

The basic scripts are fine, because they needn't do anything but declare and initialize their variables. The PC_County variables gets set in both code snippets above. For the basic npc scripts they are equivalent. But the first version prevents any further logic to be processed after the first frame, so it is incompatible with scripts that need to do more.

in case you have ever been wondering about the control and controlQ-variables. They are just deposits, mainly for quest purpose. You can use them however you wish to set and read an additional value on an npc apart from having the journal.

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Post by Infragris » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:48 am

Thx, worsas.

Update: bed scripts are now functioning, various spelling errors fixed. Number of minor fixes in object placement etc.

I am going to make an executive decision and move this to reviewing.
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Post by Leon » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:36 pm

Just mentioning that I will continue with the quests only if the main Stirk file passes the reviewing state. Every time the Stirk file is updated new errors emerge, so it's better (as Infragris has mentioned before) to wait for the Stirk file to be completed.
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Post by Infragris » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:57 pm

I'm wondering if it might be better to merge the NPC file directly into the mainland .esm and edit the quests on top of that, rather than to build/merge the quests with the NPC claim?

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