PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

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worsas
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PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by worsas » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:42 pm

Doomstones and Runestones. Claimed by Saint Jiub.
Infragris wrote:Another thing that needs to be implemented: doomstones & runestones. The nature of these stones wasn't really fleshed out during Oblivion, so we should develop their purpose somewhere in the future. For the moment, this claim would be very simple, as the three stones in the Gold Coast (the Lord Stone, the Lady Stone, and the Jode Stone) are all of the same type: "Doomstones".

The claim would consist of upright stones, using the same texture as the surrounding rocks in the landscape, with an red, glowing runealpha texture covering it. In Oblivion, all these stones had the same runes on them, though it might be nice to a different design for Heaven Stonesand Birthsign Stones. Doomstones were supposedly made in the Merethic Era, before or during the rule of the Ayleid. As such, their design is unrelated to any other cultures we currently depict. Surrounding them are stone circles: modest clumps of rocks in the original, though we could expand these to be actual stone circles of the Stonehenge type, since we have the place for it (perhaps with a couple of Colovian barrows in the neighborhood).

There's also another type, the Runestones, which are solitary stones with a green rune pattern. These aren't immediately important, as we have no such stones in the current region. These stones are of a later date, which means we could associate their design with tilesets like the Colovian tombs or the Reman forts.

More inspiration on these stones can be found here, though it should be noted that this source is deliberately incorrect on some points.

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:24 pm

Almost forgot I had this claim- I don't have the original files anymore so I decided to start over. Even though the Oblivion version of the Doomstone was basically random scribbles, to me it's very iconic and cool looking so I decided to stick with something fairly close to the original iteration. I replaced the random scribbles with the actual birthsigns, with their Guardian at the top - so for any of the three Warrior charges (Lady Stone, Steed Stone, etc) we can use the same texture, ditto for the Mage charges, etc - this should add some diversity without having to make 21+ unique models/textures.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/yacBorF.png[/hsimg]

Still conceptualizing the Serpent and Heaven Stones, which will need their own designs too.

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R-Zero
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:50 pm

Nice!

I recently had an idea of manipulating the glow texture mip-maps so the glow would be the brighter the close Player gets - maybe this could be used for these stones? They supposedly react to the Heroes. Just pitching an idea.
Still conceptualizing the Serpent and Heaven Stones, which will need their own designs too.
For Serpent I think just the constellation symbol would be fine. The stone itself could look more menacing than the others, reflecting the belief that it supposedly endangers other constellations.
Among the Heaven Stones the Sithian stone is most intriguing. That exactly is it supposed to be representing? I wasn't able to find any other references.Nevermind this, I'm stupid, it's most likely Sithis.

Will you also be making the Nirn Stone?
Last edited by R-Zero on Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Infragris
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Infragris » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:20 pm

I think for the Serpent stone it would make sense that the constellation somehow breaks through the patterns of the other stones, erasing parts of the boundary lines and patterns that the other stones have. Or perhaps it could be spread across several stones, which together make up a migratory pattern.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:58 pm

What about this for the Serpent?

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/MfQKxEZ.png[/hsimg]

Don't know if there are any Garth Nix fans here, but I wanted something like the broken Charter Stones in his Old Kingdom series.

R-Zero: Yep, I'm going to be doing all of the doomstones/runestones, including the Nirn stone. Sithian Stone will symbolize the Void surrounding Oblivion.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:17 am

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/IBDqSr5.png[/hsimg]

CS test shot

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Infragris
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Infragris » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:05 am

That looks great. I think perhaps parts of the serpent stone lineart could still be active? Or perhaps the serpent should overlap and replace parts of the design. Otherwise it might look a little too bland.

Charter stones are a good call for envisioning why these stones were built in the first place.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:44 pm

Serpent Stone revised:
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/WZn6Vmk.png[/hsimg]

Also, attempt #1 at a runestone (including a doomstone for comparison):
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/ZEli9sw.png[/hsimg]

I know the Daedric text is usually more of a Dunmeri thing, but since they summon bound weapons/armor for the player I figured maybe strengthening that tie to Oblivion (the realm, not the game) may not be the worst thing. This stone features a large hefhed sigil for Hestra, and then a geth and doht for gauntlet and dagger, the two items her stones can summon.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Luxray » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:45 pm

These rock
<roerich> woah it's hot in here
<Lord Berandas> it must be Summer.
<Infragris> #hell is meant as a spam and off topic channel. Doing a great job already

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Leon
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Leon » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:24 pm

Luxray wrote:These rock
I see what you did there, Luxray. You can't hide from it now. :P
Lead Interior Designer & Quality Assurance at Province: Cyrodiil

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:00 pm

They look really good. Could we have a picture at night?

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Infragris
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Infragris » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:09 pm

Lady N made a font based on the Elder Scrolls bookart. Maybe that would be more appropriate than the Daedric script?
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ElderScrollScripty_1.0.zip
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Saint_Jiub
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:48 pm

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/JmzzQIf.png[/hsimg]

In-game shot for you guys.

Thank you for the Elder Scroll font, that's going to be amazingly helpful to me :) As far as the Runestones go, I think it's ultimately going to depend on what their function is going to be - my understanding is that we aren't able to add new spell effects to the Morrowind engine without some fairly complex scripting, so if we have to go with vanilla and have the Runestones spit out Daedric-looking weapons and armor, then I think the Daedric font is the most appropriate. If we want to make them do something different, then I definitely think the ES font is the way to go.

EDIT: Figured out my problem, removed mipmaps and they look 1000% better now.
Last edited by Saint_Jiub on Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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R-Zero
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:55 pm

Agreed on the Daedric font usage. As long as it's daedra-related, daedric glyphs are the way to go.

Considering the glowmap problem, maybe this could help:
Filter Mode

First I will start out with "Bump Map Texture"> "TexFilterMode." This can be found in your "NiTexturingPropery"> "Block Details."
By default the filter mode is set to "FILTER_NEAREST_MIPNEAREST" which is apparently not a very good filter mode to use.
Your normal map and reflection map will come out pixalated and just look bad in general.
Instead the suggested filter mode would be "FILTER_TRILERP." Over all, this will give a better result.

I'd like to notice that it is true for Glow Maps and Detail Maps as well. Many modders use default filter mode for them, which results to somewhat weird look.
Source

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:58 pm

Hm, is there an advantage to keeping mipmaps in that case then? I'll admit I don't know that much about the technical aspects of it, haha, but I didn't notice any shimmering or any of the weird artifacts you usually get with removing mipmaps. If we're going to go with what you were talking about with manipulating mipmaps so that they only light up at a certain radius, I can see how they would be useful in that case.

EDIT: I'm also not totally sold on the design of the runestones - since they are more modern than the doomstones and definitely manmade, I could do something totally different. Not sure what that would be, but I can play around with it. I'd like to hear some input if anybody has any on the design aspect.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:26 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote:Hm, is there an advantage to keeping mipmaps in that case then? I'll admit I don't know that much about the technical aspects of it, haha, but I didn't notice any shimmering or any of the weird artifacts you usually get with removing mipmaps. If we're going to go with what you were talking about with manipulating mipmaps so that they only light up at a certain radius, I can see how they would be useful in that case.
Hey, if it works it works! :) If the mipmap manipulation mechanics won't fly, they would probably just be a dead weight.
EDIT: I'm also not totally sold on the design of the runestones - since they are more modern than the doomstones and definitely manmade, I could do something totally different. Not sure what that would be, but I can play around with it. I'd like to hear some input if anybody has any on the design aspect.
Some kind of stele? An obelisk? In the case of Reman Rune Stones, a roman-looking arc that casts the blessing when the Player walks through it?

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by vrolok » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:50 pm

These things I absolutely love. I personally never liked them in TES IV, they were extremely bland in appearance and function. That's me telling you, which is strange, cause usually I am not against something slightly generic, but they were really 'meh.

Now, these on the other hand, the ones made by Saint Jiub are so fantastic, I have no words for it. I don't really even care what their effect is going to be, they are just awesome to look at. It's beyond my words, how good these are. Even though they are similar to the ones in Oblivion, they are much more unique and inspired.

In game, they could have some loop sound effects to emphasize their presence. Some sort of humming to show how magnificent they are.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:05 am

vrolok wrote:In game, they could have some loop sound effects to emphasize their presence. Some sort of humming to show how magnificent they are.
Agree on this. Maybe even just the vanilla Crystal Ringing sound.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:14 am

OK, so I'll say up front that I hate this concept (I feel like it looks like a celestial slot machine, lol), but just as a conversation starter for the Heaven stones:

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/eemihJ5.png[/hsimg]

Here's what I'm thinking for implementation:

Oblivion makes the distinction (in the lectures at least) that the Doomstones have stone circles around them, while the Runestones are solitary monuments (even though in-game both are found with stone circles), so what I'd recommend for world-builders is for the Doomstones to have stone patterns representing their namesakes. For example, the Lady Stone would form the Lady constellation:
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/0PEdO0U.png[/hsimg]

Whereas the Jode stone would form a large crescent moon:
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/M0Xzbgh.png[/hsimg]

Etc.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:26 am

Last one for the night, changed up the sun and I hate it a little less now. It also creates a visual tie between the Doomstones and Mythic Dawn imagery, which considering the lore hint that the Doomstones might be "Lorkhan's birthing gift to mortals" kind of works for me.

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/zhkwFgc.png[/hsimg]

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:48 am

What is Cyrodiil map supposed to represent?

Also, unlike the Birthsign ones, combining the Heaven stones symbols together by four seems very arbitrary - perhaps having a unique model for each one would be better after all?

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Infragris
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Infragris » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:58 am

Doesn't really feel right to me: the borders of Cyrodiil changed a lot throughout the ages, so the province wouldn't be depicted in its modern state by the ancient Nedes or by Hestra. Not to mention they wouldn't visualize a map in this way: think of the medieval TO-maps, for example. Perhaps something like an abstract model of the cosmos or a star chart would be better?

For the runestones: one way of making them a bit different and more period-appropriate would be to cover them in writing, like the Rosetta Stone. Or we could keep the current design for Hestra stones and use a Rosetta-like design for the Sidri-Ashak stones (feels more in character for a Potentate to put lengthy proclamations on his runestones).

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:41 pm

Again, not so happy with this one but I'm getting good feedback here so keep it coming:
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/4yYN5KL.png[/hsimg]

Looking at them side by side, I think my problem with this is that the other doomstones have a very primal quality to them- a caveman with a stick could scratch out those markings. This misses that mark for me, but I'm unsure how to evoke that cosmology aspect of it (which I otherwise think is a good idea) without losing the very primitive feeling that I'm looking for.

Hmm.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by roerich » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:55 pm

Perhaps make the circles a bit more uneven and rough. I think you could do that and still retain the idea of a cosmic map.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:05 pm


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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:14 pm

Will you be keeping that texture for the rock itself? It doesn't seem to blend in very well with the other rocks.

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:56 am

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/vxfSr9J.png[/hsimg]
Attempt #3 at the Heaven Stones. Blaaaaaaaaargh.

TDF, I haven't had a chance to play with it in-game too much but it was designed to match the color palette of the Gold Coast as much as possible:
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/WEv8t3D.png[/hsimg]

It's smoother and less rough than the other stone textures, which for a weathered chunk of stone makes sense in my mind at least...... :?

EDIT: For my mock-ups up above, I used ashland stones for the formations, is that what you were referring to?

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worsas
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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by worsas » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:21 am

I'm totally fine with these rocks, btw. Nice work on them all. The only thing that I'd change is the current, very strong intensity of the glowmap. Maybe make it less strong and less regular in intensity, too?

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by R-Zero » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:49 pm

Saint_Jiub wrote: Attempt #3 at the Heaven Stones. Blaaaaaaaaargh.
Not sold on this one tbh, feels way too modern comparing to the Birthsign ones. I think it would be better not to show orbits, especially not as ellipses.
Something more primitive could work very well:
[hsimg=]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100 ... /astro.png[/hsimg]

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Re: PC_Act_Stone_??[Saint_Jiub]

Post by Saint_Jiub » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:23 pm

OK, so I decided to go in a slightly different direction, with better results I think:
[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/ogXRUEI.png[/hsimg]

Inspired by a picture of an astrological chart I found online, rather than going with a realistic star chart I went for a model of the Aurbis as described in Vivec's sermons (a wheel with 8 spokes and 16 voids)

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